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2020 Apr 07 08:28:06
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 07 06:03:11
Khemakumara: mudita

2020 Apr 07 06:01:35
Khemakumara: may it be a path- and fruitful Fullmoon Uposatha

2020 Apr 07 06:00:16
Khemakumara: may it be a path- and fruitful Fullmoon Uposatha

2020 Apr 06 16:02:34
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 06 12:59:12
Johann: if wishing to join, here also his number: 011 505221

2020 Apr 06 12:57:49
Johann: In two days, Ven Sophorn of Wat Sampok Andeit likes to lead the villagers for a puja up Ashram Thmo Duk

2020 Apr 06 12:54:55
Johann: Best greetings from cool Thmo Dok

2020 Apr 06 12:54:55
Johann: Best greetings from cool Thmo Dok

2020 Apr 06 12:54:55
Johann: Best greetings from cool Thmo Dok

2020 Apr 06 12:54:55
Johann: Best greetings from cool Thmo Dok

2020 Apr 04 16:12:26
Cheav Villa: The heat was 38 degrees in Phnom Penh, and the cloud was covering the sun now _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:59:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhnate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:56:49
Johann: Grundy= step grandson. Best wishes to all from the pleasing cool forest of Thmo Duk.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:39:04
Johann: All forum index, topic content would steady disappear when zoom in: white. Not possilbe to read or even write, Nyom Moriz

2020 Apr 02 06:37:53
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir einen gesunden und ausgeglichenen Geist gewinnen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 02 06:37:20
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we gain a healthy and balanced mind! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 01 14:38:03
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante Dukka arises from Touch. Touch of Avijja. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:15:36
Moritz: And is it possible to describe more what is wrong in iPhone safari? Is it at least possible to read topics? I can not test anythng for iPhone safari here, without an iPhone. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:13:46
Administration: Could Bhante give some details about accounts not properly registered or getting errors?

2020 Apr 01 10:09:46
Moritz: I hope Bhante is able to receive enough almsfood and drinking water in this time of corona fear. I read there will soon be a curfew (people not allowed to go out) for some time). _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:01:53
Moritz: Account registration and confirmation emails should work. It could be that it lands in the spam folder.

2020 Apr 01 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 08:53:17
Johann: (Forum and topics to not display proper on iPhone safari, so writing here)

2020 Apr 01 08:51:48
Johann: Some accounts may not be activated proper or the user informed right. There have been errors and needs to be checked. Maybe Nyom Moritz already has back his old strength to look into it.

2020 Apr 01 08:48:36
Johann: Dukkha arises from touch. Touch of Avijja. From nothing else. So may all avoid the bond to foolishness and seek for wise.

2020 Apr 01 08:43:51
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Apr 01 07:21:40
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:54:03
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful sila day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Mudita

2020 Mar 31 13:32:59
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 13:21:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 10:47:26
Johann: Lend device of Nyom Chanroth does not work well for now. Best greetings from the Bodhisatha of Phnom Srong to Bhangra Khemakumara. He’s missed by many, thinking lot on the blessing.

2020 Mar 31 10:25:42
Johann: May all spend a blessed Uppsala today

2020 Mar 31 08:54:28
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals tolerant sein und das Gute und Schöne in allem sehen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 31 08:54:11
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be tolerant and see the good and beautiful in all! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:41:10
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir fest und entschlossen sein und einen eisernen Willen haben! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:40:36
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be firm and resolute and have an iron will! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 26 20:49:20
Cheav Villa: and they have keep the rule of the Village is safe... I kana also told him that one another foreigner monk already left to the Aural... and he probably walk through the area. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:47:32
Moritz: Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:44:17
Cheav Villa: I kana used to talk to the Khmer monk at Wat AngChum who contacted to Akyum with the Police in Korng Pisey District, the monk want to apologize again and again he said he and the Police had no bad will againt Bhante. Because of cannot talk and understand the language...

2020 Mar 26 20:35:58
Cheav Villa: I kana hope that Bhante Johann will be back to Akyum soon. Bhante Johann now might take rest near infront Phnom Srong, where place Bhante had been before. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:31:00
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante Well being? _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:25:58
Khemakumara: Upāsakā Moritz

2020 Mar 26 20:21:38
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Mar 26 13:43:15
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 17:31:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and Safe. May they be healed.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 11:24:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 04:06:52
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful uposatha day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 10:32:51
Moritz: Vandami Bhante Ariyadhammika _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:32:05
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:21:39
Mohan Gnanathilake:   Mögen wir furchtlos vor Gefahren stehen und mutig alle Hindernisse überwinden! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 09:21:03
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be fearless in facing dangers and courageously surmount all obstacles! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 08:33:26
Moritz: _/\_ Bang Villa

2020 Mar 21 23:08:34
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 21 23:08:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 21 21:33:47
Khemakumara: កតញ្ញូ   kataññū _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 20 20:55:00
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals ruhig, heiter, gelassen und friedlich sein! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 20:49:17
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be calm, serene, unruffled and peaceful! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 10:38:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 17 11:24:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 17 07:01:04
Johann: And for those celebrating the Sila day today, a blessed undertaking.

2020 Mar 16 08:31:19
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 16 06:12:53
Johann: A Blessed Siladay this day

2020 Mar 15 07:46:18
Johann: Sadhu,sadhu

2020 Mar 14 23:37:16
Mohan Gnanathilake: Das Leben ist durch Unwissenheit, Verlangen und Festhalten bedingt. Das Leben ist wie ein Rad, das sich ohne Anfang umdreht. Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 14 22:32:02
Mohan Gnanathilake: Life is conditioned by ignorance, craving and clinging. Life is like a wheel, turning around without any beginning. Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 13 23:15:35
Cheav Villa: May all be blessed by the Savage Sangha along the way to Akyum Pagoda from tomorrow.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 23:11:28
Cheav Villa: I Kana just tries to breath in and out about 30mins.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 06:47:28
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Mar 12 22:29:59
Cheav Villa: I kana tried about 30mins before bed  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 21:23:01
Johann: Leave form, sound, smell, taste and touch, right here and now.

2020 Mar 12 21:07:20
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 14:46:47
Johann: Every time is the best time to leave home, yes.

2020 Mar 12 13:38:39
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Best Time to know the Vipasana course is still Vipasana course, when the real Vipasana has come.  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:55:07
Johann: Best to make Vipassana when there is no fear of Samsara... *irony*

2020 Mar 12 12:51:48
Johann: Waht about changing the date to one when there is no traffic because their are dying much more people every day...

2020 Mar 12 12:50:27
Johann: Best time when there is no more sickness and death in the world or? Samsara fans.

2020 Mar 12 12:41:57
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz  :) _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:40:49
Cheav Villa: I kana heard from Bang Puthy, Bhante Indanano wants to change the schedule for Vipasana because of most afraid of spreading Covid_19. :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:36:56
Cheav Villa: I kana also dont like to sit as long for the Vipassana Course. Vipasana in any sitting,  walking, standing..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:31:33
Johann: (Don't tell it further: He is terrible afraid that he possible needs to take part on the Vipassana course at Wat Akyum)

2020 Mar 12 12:28:23
Johann: They hold him in what's app Samsara caught. *bling*

2020 Mar 12 12:25:45
Johann: He is to afraid because people always tell anything further, my person guesses. To much watching Devas  :)

2020 Mar 12 12:23:21
Cheav Villa: I kana had heard of Master Moritz wants to go back soon to enjoy the Samsara  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_. As I kana know the Samara is everywhere in this worldily.  :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:14:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 20:10:03
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:35:33
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:02:48
Johann: Not only, also for heavens, but if well done of course (Uposatha was held even before the Buddha as well, Nyom)

2020 Mar 09 11:33:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Uposatha is for magga and phalas only   :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 11:31:36
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 10:50:08
Johann: A blessed full moon uposatha, maggas and phalas, all.

2020 Mar 08 10:10:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 08 08:52:14
Johann: May all observe a blessed full moon Uposatha, those who tend to do it today.

2020 Mar 07 22:47:14
Johann: We includes all wordlings, Nyom. Something that can be changed.

2020 Mar 07 22:45:33
Mohan Gnanathilake: We are susceptible to the worldly conditions (loka-dhamma). Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 06 12:03:17
You Y:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu Bhante.

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Are the Jataka stories authentic or later additions? Are they missleading?  (Read 768 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
In what timeframe was Jataka tales added to Kuddaka Nikaya?

Are the Jataka tales of the Pali Canon authentic words of the Buddha?

Are the 547 Jataka tales in Khuddaka Nikāya considered as authentic words of the Buddha? Were they compiled into the Canon in the first council itself (like most of the Sutta pitaka)? If not, in which council would have this been added?

When I look at the Jataka tales, there are some portions in verse form and the rest in prose. I was told that the prose is a commentary added later. However, much of the story evolves only through the prose portion. Is it documented anywhere in the Canon that those commentaries are based on an oral lineage of the stories passing down all the way from the Buddha?

I am trying to see whether the presence of certain characters and stories in the Jataka tales can be taken as a proof for them being known in that form in the time of the Buddha.

(Note that the original question on Bu-SE, on which the answer, found under the quotelink, already be changed by third person.)

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,


(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" - which also could have been changed by third person - that can be found here . )

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.

At one occation the "Bu-SE yogis" have assembled in the forum and talked about "Are the Jataka tales of the Pali Canon authentic words of the Buddha? In what timeframe was Jataka tales added to Kuddaka Nikaya?", histrory, bad and good guys a around it, and soon engaged in loud disputes. Then Johann entered and looked after what the matter was and thought "it would be better to talk on Dhamma or dwell in silence (2. Jhana), what would be good here to give or to avoid?" And then wrote:

 (Note, the stile here is to make it more alive and a teaching itself, no need to assume Johann as Buddha, Noble One or anything special at all. But you can use such idea to lift yourself and your awarness, if you like and find it useful)

Relating a little to the answer of Dhammadhuta here and it'spossible problems: both, to be and not to be, are no really useful question for the path. Why, because if pondering whether "is it?" or "is it not?" "was it?" "was it not?" "what will it be if it was?" "if it was not, where...?", all this questions that cause dukkha are not contuctive for getting beyound1 suffering and stress and one can continue them endless and each taking stand will cause another to fight it.

So maybe its better to ask:
  • 1. "How have the stories be used, for a good, such a long time?"
  • 2. "What do I not see for now, or overlook currently, that I see there conratictions? Which part did I not understand, so that it causes me doubt? Do I have proper attention?"

To regard the first: When reading the stories, and look also torward the situations they are told, the actors, their structure and the possible purpose (see also "Befriending the Suttas - Tips on Reading the Pali Discourses " in this manner, when starting with the stories situations when told by themselves, they mostly have been stories being told when the community of monks was assembled and allone with the Buddha, mostly the monks just involved in idle talk, or when issues in regard if Vinaya or special things happened.

When the minds awarness is currently in a very low stage, eager after papañca, its not possible to pull it into a sphere of Jhāna, and teach then things beyound the world. So the anchor here was always also very wordily, to use the situation, to give a lesson on moral, Vinaya, and mostly to increase faith, that the audiance will be urged on one hand: "if you do like them, you will face this" (saṃvega) and on the other hand faith (saddhā) or pasāda in this regard, that "even not really practising on the path now, my merits have been of that sort, that I am now able to teach you as a Buddha", aside of the many sacrifies done to gain such perfections. So they are mostly not really purposed - and in situations - when supramudane teaching would have been possible.

In regard of urging the monks, for certain purpose of stilling desire after wordily stories - like you mostly here have, TV, relatives... and certain interest in socializing, or in the way my person here presents an answer - similar to this, rendered not with to high teaching to keep the mind entertaint, and lift it to the most possible state, teaching there faith and precepts, the basics for the path.

Such teaching in stories, if either intended for idle purpose, to simply socialize for gains, or when meeting an audience that is only capable to use the food for entertaining the mind wrong, is of course fast and easy to use for currupt ways and for a bad.

Here again, the stories most have been told under the monks and in certain situations. Since a longer it was usual - especially because the targeted audience is/was, if after gain, naturally a greedy one and after low etertainment - to use them as simple medium for improper purposes, but that circumstances does not make themselves bad, useless, unreal or not conductive perse.

Every good teachers, focused exclusively on path and fruits to be gained by their disciples, past, now, later, will from time to time sit down with their disciples and tell "very human" stories.

My person, for example, likes to tell such a "Jataka" in relation of "when I was stil a Bodhisatta, not walking direct on the path", "Devas", and fatherday, within the next time maybe, to give a moral lesson and chances to increase faith (saddhā, sīla and certain amout of saṃvega) - somehow a combinatiom like in the cinema (action, horror and love) - for a good entertainment and purpose to increase the good qualities of mind, not to seek honor and look after audience for gains, but even "risking" that most will say "look at this crazy" and leave.

The secound question is this of encountering seemingly conflicts, more and lesser, which mostly is because we again have this "this is real, only this" desire, forgetting that the teaching is a step by step way and has not equanimity and or Nibbana at the beginn, in the middle and in the end as means, but that are they are results of seeing "now this is the front and that is the behind" and vici versa, and to know where our mind currently dwells, is attached with.

If we make all a matter of "not-self" not understanding that there are places where we need to multiplicate and places where we need to divide to get the task of de-velopement done, we/they are not only simply celebrate the Uposatha of the Jains , being just thieves, and by time cut us/them simply off the path, for long time.

On the other hand, if we use the Jatakas like those celerbrating the Uposatha of the cowherds, we/they might not shine radiant, but do at least not cut them off from the path entirely, even if simply after gain, and at least keep the cart, even without goods inside, alive.

If we use them like the elders and wise did, since they exist, for laypeople especilly and all those still need to increase moral and faith to gain path, than we simply use them for the Ariya-Uposatha purpose, take the moral, practice of the eight Silas minimum, while listening and rejoice in the dwelling, caused by the reflections, buddhānussati, ... devatānussati, turn our mind to where ever it is nice to dwell, or even use the teachings of a higher, when having reached this concentrations, and go beyound rebirth and their stories.

How ever, without the steps and their means, the higher can not be reached, and whether they have been true, the steps and means, you will know only for sure, if you could have reached the heavenly realms or even awakening. As for the last: it might be that you even again, do not really grasp after this question any more, but maybe just give them as means for others, to be able to clime up and beyound where you have already gone: beyond or in trust like the elders, did for now.

So having actually not been anywhere, it would be maybe not wise to cut away, and destroy by starving it, what you can not understand for notw, or not clear enough to understand the purpose before having done the task.

To give at the end a simily of Ajhan Chah:

Rubbing Fire Sticks

The practice is like a man rubbing fire sticks together. He's heard people say, "Take two pieces of bamboo and rub them together, and you'll get fire." So he takes two pieces of bamboo and rubs them together. But his heart is impatient. After rubbing them together a bit he wants there to be fire. His heart keeps pushing for the fire to come quickly, but the fire just won't come. He starts getting lazy, so he stops to rest. Then he tries rubbing the sticks together again for a little bit, and then stops to rest. Whatever warmth there was disappears, because the warmth isn't connected.

If he keeps acting like this, stopping whenever he gets tired — although just being tired isn't so bad: His laziness gets mixed in too, so the whole thing goes to pieces. He decides that there is no fire, he doesn't want fire after all, so he gives up. He stops. He won't rub the sticks anymore. Then he goes about announcing, "There is no fire. You can't get it this way. There is no fire. I've already tried."

With other words, even you might know how to make fire, being taught with stones, don't run around and say "Its not possible with stones" either because you have not tried or could not manage, or because you did not know that the master teached in other ways, to come to the path that consumes the fires and releases, as well.

Release is the aim, while how to make fire and the consume of it, are just needed and good means. Don't waste time with "it is real - it is not real", "be or not be" for phenomenas have causes, also the phenomena to see as it really is, and then the unbound remains.

And my person does not tell you - either because he does not know, or to provoke skillful speculations - who had been Gunavijaya, Hellyell, Dhamnadhatu and he at the Buddhas time. Tendencies and upanissāya are not easy to chance, since such reqires not only nissāyapaccaya but upanissāyapaccayena like for people, places, weather and prefered food. That being a teaching, that the Jatakas also transport, while the Suttas are for those who have more freedom to chance already accumulated.

And on that occation Johann said:

"Right decictions to chance ones foolish ways can be made every time, but the fool, attached to the food he is used since a child, does not taste what is not known to him but paised by the wise. Thinking having gone beyound already, they continue to take live, take what is not given, abuse and tell what isn't fact, oppose the wise and nourish on the poison of desire after gain. Again and again reappear in the world of pain. Those who tast gain release."

After that teaching 30 readers took refuge in the Buddha, in hiscommunity of monks and his Dhamma and became Faith-follower, 30 readers gained Streamentry and Gunavijaya rejoiced in the words and left.

(Note: This is a gift of Dhamma not meant for commercial purposes or other wordily gains.)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 12:01:07 AM by Johann »
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