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Talkbox

2020 Apr 04 16:12:26
Cheav Villa: The heat was 38 degrees in Phnom Penh, and the cloud was covering the sun now _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:59:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhnate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:56:49
Johann: Grundy= step grandson. Best wishes to all from the pleasing cool forest of Thmo Duk.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:39:04
Johann: All forum index, topic content would steady disappear when zoom in: white. Not possilbe to read or even write, Nyom Moriz

2020 Apr 02 06:37:53
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir einen gesunden und ausgeglichenen Geist gewinnen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 02 06:37:20
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we gain a healthy and balanced mind! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 01 14:38:03
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante Dukka arises from Touch. Touch of Avijja. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:15:36
Moritz: And is it possible to describe more what is wrong in iPhone safari? Is it at least possible to read topics? I can not test anythng for iPhone safari here, without an iPhone. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:13:46
Administration: Could Bhante give some details about accounts not properly registered or getting errors?

2020 Apr 01 10:09:46
Moritz: I hope Bhante is able to receive enough almsfood and drinking water in this time of corona fear. I read there will soon be a curfew (people not allowed to go out) for some time). _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:01:53
Moritz: Account registration and confirmation emails should work. It could be that it lands in the spam folder.

2020 Apr 01 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 08:53:17
Johann: (Forum and topics to not display proper on iPhone safari, so writing here)

2020 Apr 01 08:51:48
Johann: Some accounts may not be activated proper or the user informed right. There have been errors and needs to be checked. Maybe Nyom Moritz already has back his old strength to look into it.

2020 Apr 01 08:48:36
Johann: Dukkha arises from touch. Touch of Avijja. From nothing else. So may all avoid the bond to foolishness and seek for wise.

2020 Apr 01 08:43:51
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Apr 01 07:21:40
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:54:03
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful sila day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Mudita

2020 Mar 31 13:32:59
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 13:21:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 10:47:26
Johann: Lend device of Nyom Chanroth does not work well for now. Best greetings from the Bodhisatha of Phnom Srong to Bhangra Khemakumara. He’s missed by many, thinking lot on the blessing.

2020 Mar 31 10:25:42
Johann: May all spend a blessed Uppsala today

2020 Mar 31 08:54:28
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals tolerant sein und das Gute und Schöne in allem sehen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 31 08:54:11
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be tolerant and see the good and beautiful in all! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:41:10
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir fest und entschlossen sein und einen eisernen Willen haben! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:40:36
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be firm and resolute and have an iron will! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 26 20:49:20
Cheav Villa: and they have keep the rule of the Village is safe... I kana also told him that one another foreigner monk already left to the Aural... and he probably walk through the area. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:47:32
Moritz: Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:44:17
Cheav Villa: I kana used to talk to the Khmer monk at Wat AngChum who contacted to Akyum with the Police in Korng Pisey District, the monk want to apologize again and again he said he and the Police had no bad will againt Bhante. Because of cannot talk and understand the language...

2020 Mar 26 20:35:58
Cheav Villa: I kana hope that Bhante Johann will be back to Akyum soon. Bhante Johann now might take rest near infront Phnom Srong, where place Bhante had been before. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:31:00
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante Well being? _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:25:58
Khemakumara: Upāsakā Moritz

2020 Mar 26 20:21:38
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Mar 26 13:43:15
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 17:31:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and Safe. May they be healed.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 11:24:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 04:06:52
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful uposatha day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 10:32:51
Moritz: Vandami Bhante Ariyadhammika _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:32:05
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:21:39
Mohan Gnanathilake:   Mögen wir furchtlos vor Gefahren stehen und mutig alle Hindernisse überwinden! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 09:21:03
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be fearless in facing dangers and courageously surmount all obstacles! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 08:33:26
Moritz: _/\_ Bang Villa

2020 Mar 21 23:08:34
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 21 23:08:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 21 21:33:47
Khemakumara: កតញ្ញូ   kataññū _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 20 20:55:00
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals ruhig, heiter, gelassen und friedlich sein! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 20:49:17
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be calm, serene, unruffled and peaceful! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 10:38:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 17 11:24:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 17 07:01:04
Johann: And for those celebrating the Sila day today, a blessed undertaking.

2020 Mar 16 08:31:19
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 16 06:12:53
Johann: A Blessed Siladay this day

2020 Mar 15 07:46:18
Johann: Sadhu,sadhu

2020 Mar 14 23:37:16
Mohan Gnanathilake: Das Leben ist durch Unwissenheit, Verlangen und Festhalten bedingt. Das Leben ist wie ein Rad, das sich ohne Anfang umdreht. Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 14 22:32:02
Mohan Gnanathilake: Life is conditioned by ignorance, craving and clinging. Life is like a wheel, turning around without any beginning. Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 13 23:15:35
Cheav Villa: May all be blessed by the Savage Sangha along the way to Akyum Pagoda from tomorrow.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 23:11:28
Cheav Villa: I Kana just tries to breath in and out about 30mins.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 06:47:28
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Mar 12 22:29:59
Cheav Villa: I kana tried about 30mins before bed  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 21:23:01
Johann: Leave form, sound, smell, taste and touch, right here and now.

2020 Mar 12 21:07:20
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 14:46:47
Johann: Every time is the best time to leave home, yes.

2020 Mar 12 13:38:39
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Best Time to know the Vipasana course is still Vipasana course, when the real Vipasana has come.  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:55:07
Johann: Best to make Vipassana when there is no fear of Samsara... *irony*

2020 Mar 12 12:51:48
Johann: Waht about changing the date to one when there is no traffic because their are dying much more people every day...

2020 Mar 12 12:50:27
Johann: Best time when there is no more sickness and death in the world or? Samsara fans.

2020 Mar 12 12:41:57
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz  :) _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:40:49
Cheav Villa: I kana heard from Bang Puthy, Bhante Indanano wants to change the schedule for Vipasana because of most afraid of spreading Covid_19. :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:36:56
Cheav Villa: I kana also dont like to sit as long for the Vipassana Course. Vipasana in any sitting,  walking, standing..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:31:33
Johann: (Don't tell it further: He is terrible afraid that he possible needs to take part on the Vipassana course at Wat Akyum)

2020 Mar 12 12:28:23
Johann: They hold him in what's app Samsara caught. *bling*

2020 Mar 12 12:25:45
Johann: He is to afraid because people always tell anything further, my person guesses. To much watching Devas  :)

2020 Mar 12 12:23:21
Cheav Villa: I kana had heard of Master Moritz wants to go back soon to enjoy the Samsara  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_. As I kana know the Samara is everywhere in this worldily.  :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:14:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 20:10:03
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:35:33
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:02:48
Johann: Not only, also for heavens, but if well done of course (Uposatha was held even before the Buddha as well, Nyom)

2020 Mar 09 11:33:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Uposatha is for magga and phalas only   :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 11:31:36
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 10:50:08
Johann: A blessed full moon uposatha, maggas and phalas, all.

2020 Mar 08 10:10:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 08 08:52:14
Johann: May all observe a blessed full moon Uposatha, those who tend to do it today.

2020 Mar 07 22:47:14
Johann: We includes all wordlings, Nyom. Something that can be changed.

2020 Mar 07 22:45:33
Mohan Gnanathilake: We are susceptible to the worldly conditions (loka-dhamma). Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 06 12:03:17
You Y:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu Bhante.

2020 Mar 06 09:37:33
You Y: Bhante Johann,  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Could you please share me the dhama that I read yesterday?

2020 Mar 05 20:58:15
Moritz: Probably all coming from the messengers (WhatsApp, Telegram), where I just informed a little. :)

2020 Mar 05 20:56:28
Johann: 4 guests already, so nothing to worry, Brah google and his host will follow as long be traceable.

2020 Mar 05 20:52:41
Moritz: Yes, they may come back when the new address is indexed by a search engine.

2020 Mar 05 20:48:50
Johann: Nyom, Nyom. Robots and google may not follow redirects

2020 Mar 05 20:41:44
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:41:28
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:38:20
Moritz: 0 guests here - unusual sight :-)

2020 Mar 05 20:38:07
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:38:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 04 11:49:51
Johann: Nyom

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Author Topic: [Q&A] How accurate is AN 9.20–Velāma Sutta in your opinion? (making merits?)  (Read 683 times)

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Offline Johann

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How accurate is AN 9.20 – Velāma Sutta in your opinion?
(Does merits making instead of practicing make sense?
Is there possible success if practicing without making merits?)


Quote from: by Breath, on BSE
How accurate is AN 9.20 – Velāma Sutta in your opinion?

would really like to here how accurate is AN 9.20 – Velāma Sutta is in your opinion

* Is stuff exaggerated in places ?
* If you give all the stuff velama gave wouldn't you get at least a little more than a "whiff of a heart of good will" while doing so - more moments of good will than just one ?
* Im not sure i remember all i want to ask about this sutta so if you have anything to add that is welcomed


Link to the sutta :

http://www.accesstoinsight.eu/tipitaka/an/an09/an09.020.than_en.html[1]
 1. link original to ati, here to get to the German transl. in .eu changed

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)

Breath, and those interested, those possible worthy of special gifts, capable to take,

assuming that accurate is meant in regard of the followed question that might be rephrased "Does the Buddha say here: Giving does not lead to merits, when saying: 'If one were to develop even for just a finger-snap the perception of inconstancy, that would be more fruitful than the gift, the great gift, that Velāma the brahman gave, and [in addition to that] if one were to feed one person...'.

Actually this Sutta (or better wrong understandig of it) is in fact for most wester and modern people the reason why they deny that making merits, developing goodness, is needed and so deny the developing of generosity, sila, if even, without goodness cause of letting go for the sake of beyond.

Most western, moder "Buddhist" are actually training in line of th Jains who seek refuge in what is called householder-equanimity by the Buddha, meaning that they develope ignorance in the cloth of equanimity the construct around the actual path of letting go and factually do not give anything but merely amass in this way. Make simply sacrifies to keep the flame of death alive, loka-dana.

See: [Q&A] What happens when your tank is empty, and you’ve got nothing left to give

It's message is also (and with the same cause) that giving without virtue "regardless of whether a gift is coarse or refined, if it is given inattentively, disrespectfully, not with one's own hand, as if throwing it away, with the view that nothing will come of it", or an object of virtue (without reflecting and keeping "buddha, Dhamma, Sangha", un-deluded in mind, has not much value for the path.

Giving so, no good perception of something worthy for gifts (because there is no worthy known or traced), the gift, sacrify is for like-alike, sacrify for like-alike or even lower, leads one there, keeps one there, simply for the sake of keeping the flame of death alive.

Like many (Brahmans, some even for what they think that it leads them to become Buddhas, being Velama, yet not even have wealth to share, to possible differents to Vemala) here. They possible think that they make merits why carring about an "unclean" place, are attached to like-alike and not directing their sacrifies to the three juwels, the Sangha as the unexcelt field of merits. So they nurish just whe world, what ever one nurishes will grow (inwardl and outwardly), and that counts for staring as well.

Doing "merits" in such a way, it is clear that people putting effort into perceptions which are not worthy of special sacrifies, actually just sacrify for their own sake, becoming and selfish purpose.

That is why one should keep right joy in giving in mind, using the three juwels as perception, Nibbana and what leads there, as object of ones deeds, one who seeks for gaining merits, goodness, that leads upwards and beyound. It such is done in an enviroment that does not provide for developing such, has not the purpose for such, is not supported by proper joy, people directed to Nibbana, but simply fot the worlds and becoming sake, to keep the flame of becoming, death alive, its of no fruits of no merits at all:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Householder, regardless of whether a gift is coarse or refined, if it is given inattentively, disrespectfully, not with one's own hand, as if throwing it away, with the view that nothing will come of it: Wherever the result of that gift comes to fruition, one's mind will not incline to the enjoyment of splendid food, will not incline to the enjoyment of splendid clothing, will not incline to the enjoyment of splendid vehicles, will not incline to the enjoyment of the splendid five strings of sensuality. And one's sons & daughters, slaves, servants, & workers will not listen to one, will not lend ear, will not make their minds attend for the sake of knowledge. Why is that? Because that is the result of inattentive actions."
Quote from: AN 9.20

Is like in MN96:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“Brahmin, it is like a poor miserable man against his wish was told, here good man, you should eat meat and you should not spend money on it. In a likewise manner, without the consent of recluses and Brahmins, have appointed these four services. Brahmin, I do not say all services should be done. I do not say, all services should not be done. When doing those services if there is evil, that service is not good. I say it should not be done. When doing those services, if there is no evil, that service is good. (and vici vera).
Quote from: MN 96, translated by Sister Upalavanna

Like the person who had put Sister Uppalavannas translation with a lot of sacrifies on the web (obove linked), he had possible made it in a manner of no fruits to aspected from it, althought it might come to frutaions. Possible without keeping Silas, respectless, thinking on amasing for ones own sake or what holding as self/real. Doing for reputations, wealth (physical, mental by knowledge), praise, pleasant feeling... or simply out of wrong view, invest his sacrifies for unreal and not to real directed sakes, for the world: Not to tend up-wards, most not even tend as it currently is, up simply wasts his als goodness, merits away.

Many of modern lay or opposing undertakings and practices, and their ways, unguided, self-over-estmating in wealth and possiblities, simple waste old merits an goodness possible earlier attained. So it is with all that meditation stuff and well-ness-buddhism, all simple certain ego or not-ego trips.

Be attentive, pay proper attention and learn to judge more wisely, step by step, with real benefical sacrifies and their targets!

May this sacrify made by me, benefit those able to rejoice with it, lead to highest bliss, path and fruit, and may the Devas inform those who do not have seen or heard yet.

Anumodana!

[Later Addition (on account of an answer here) to understand quality of Dana better:

There are 3 factors:

- The giver (his mindstate, directed to...? free of moha, lobha, dosa, or not) - since Velama was an "ordinary" being, perfection can not be aspected, he also had neither inwardly nor outwardly an access to the tripple gems or the/a Buddha, could possible not even images such.

- The recipient (since at this time there where no Buddha no Sangha and the gifts might not have been given to a Pacceccabuddha, they have been directed to "ordinary" people.)

- The gift (it was clearly outstanding and therefore had it's certain frutation)

The Suttas give direct 6 factors: Dana Sutta: Giving

When one has the wrong perception of a worthy recipient, holding something not really worthy for worthy, thinking this or that wordling is a Noble one, having no perception of those following the Noble One, it is to be assumed that the gifts are given out of right view and so have not much value in direction of Nibbana. People think normal not in spheres of free of fetters but on what ever benefits or wordily aims. Having the tripple Gems possible still present, many are gifted with that unexcelt field of merits and it is merely "sad" if not used.

That is why just a spoon of rice, with the right mindstate to a worthy person excells even the biggest wealth given if this two factors are not perfect. Or just the Veneration torward a Noble is many times higher as doing charity to torward ordinary people day by day, the whole year. See Dhp ]

More on Dana, note that the princip in it counts also for the merits sila, samadhi, can be found with references and discussion here: Dana (Generosity, Charity) "Abhidhamma in daily life "
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:02:42 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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