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Talkbox

2020 Apr 04 16:12:26
Cheav Villa: The heat was 38 degrees in Phnom Penh, and the cloud was covering the sun now _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:59:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhnate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 04 15:56:49
Johann: Grundy= step grandson. Best wishes to all from the pleasing cool forest of Thmo Duk.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:54:52
Johann: Chan Roth’s Grundy came up to lend the device “Moritz likes to contact, lol ta” , well, no idea of how to use anything, so just waiting on any “ pling” and then follow a possible link of what ever media.

2020 Apr 04 15:39:04
Johann: All forum index, topic content would steady disappear when zoom in: white. Not possilbe to read or even write, Nyom Moriz

2020 Apr 02 06:37:53
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir einen gesunden und ausgeglichenen Geist gewinnen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 02 06:37:20
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we gain a healthy and balanced mind! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Apr 01 14:38:03
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante Dukka arises from Touch. Touch of Avijja. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:15:36
Moritz: And is it possible to describe more what is wrong in iPhone safari? Is it at least possible to read topics? I can not test anythng for iPhone safari here, without an iPhone. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:13:46
Administration: Could Bhante give some details about accounts not properly registered or getting errors?

2020 Apr 01 10:09:46
Moritz: I hope Bhante is able to receive enough almsfood and drinking water in this time of corona fear. I read there will soon be a curfew (people not allowed to go out) for some time). _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 10:01:53
Moritz: Account registration and confirmation emails should work. It could be that it lands in the spam folder.

2020 Apr 01 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 08:53:17
Johann: (Forum and topics to not display proper on iPhone safari, so writing here)

2020 Apr 01 08:51:48
Johann: Some accounts may not be activated proper or the user informed right. There have been errors and needs to be checked. Maybe Nyom Moritz already has back his old strength to look into it.

2020 Apr 01 08:48:36
Johann: Dukkha arises from touch. Touch of Avijja. From nothing else. So may all avoid the bond to foolishness and seek for wise.

2020 Apr 01 08:43:51
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Apr 01 07:21:40
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:54:03
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful sila day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 01 04:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Mudita

2020 Mar 31 13:32:59
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 13:21:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 31 10:47:26
Johann: Lend device of Nyom Chanroth does not work well for now. Best greetings from the Bodhisatha of Phnom Srong to Bhangra Khemakumara. He’s missed by many, thinking lot on the blessing.

2020 Mar 31 10:25:42
Johann: May all spend a blessed Uppsala today

2020 Mar 31 08:54:28
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals tolerant sein und das Gute und Schöne in allem sehen! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 31 08:54:11
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be tolerant and see the good and beautiful in all! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:41:10
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir fest und entschlossen sein und einen eisernen Willen haben! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 27 10:40:36
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be firm and resolute and have an iron will! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 26 20:49:20
Cheav Villa: and they have keep the rule of the Village is safe... I kana also told him that one another foreigner monk already left to the Aural... and he probably walk through the area. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:47:32
Moritz: Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:44:17
Cheav Villa: I kana used to talk to the Khmer monk at Wat AngChum who contacted to Akyum with the Police in Korng Pisey District, the monk want to apologize again and again he said he and the Police had no bad will againt Bhante. Because of cannot talk and understand the language...

2020 Mar 26 20:35:58
Cheav Villa: I kana hope that Bhante Johann will be back to Akyum soon. Bhante Johann now might take rest near infront Phnom Srong, where place Bhante had been before. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:31:00
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante Well being? _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 26 20:25:58
Khemakumara: Upāsakā Moritz

2020 Mar 26 20:21:38
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Mar 26 13:43:15
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 17:31:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and Safe. May they be healed.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 11:24:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 24 04:06:52
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful uposatha day  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 10:32:51
Moritz: Vandami Bhante Ariyadhammika _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:32:05
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Mar 22 09:21:39
Mohan Gnanathilake:   Mögen wir furchtlos vor Gefahren stehen und mutig alle Hindernisse überwinden! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 09:21:03
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we be fearless in facing dangers and courageously surmount all obstacles! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 22 08:33:26
Moritz: _/\_ Bang Villa

2020 Mar 21 23:08:34
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 21 23:08:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 21 21:33:47
Khemakumara: កតញ្ញូ   kataññū _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 20 20:55:00
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals ruhig, heiter, gelassen und friedlich sein! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 20:49:17
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we ever be calm, serene, unruffled and peaceful! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 20 10:38:44
Cheav Villa: May all beings be well and safe. May they be happy. _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Mar 17 11:24:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 17 07:01:04
Johann: And for those celebrating the Sila day today, a blessed undertaking.

2020 Mar 16 08:31:19
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 16 06:12:53
Johann: A Blessed Siladay this day

2020 Mar 15 07:46:18
Johann: Sadhu,sadhu

2020 Mar 14 23:37:16
Mohan Gnanathilake: Das Leben ist durch Unwissenheit, Verlangen und Festhalten bedingt. Das Leben ist wie ein Rad, das sich ohne Anfang umdreht. Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 14 22:32:02
Mohan Gnanathilake: Life is conditioned by ignorance, craving and clinging. Life is like a wheel, turning around without any beginning. Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 13 23:15:35
Cheav Villa: May all be blessed by the Savage Sangha along the way to Akyum Pagoda from tomorrow.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 23:11:28
Cheav Villa: I Kana just tries to breath in and out about 30mins.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 13 06:47:28
Johann: Sadhu

2020 Mar 12 22:29:59
Cheav Villa: I kana tried about 30mins before bed  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 21:23:01
Johann: Leave form, sound, smell, taste and touch, right here and now.

2020 Mar 12 21:07:20
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 14:46:47
Johann: Every time is the best time to leave home, yes.

2020 Mar 12 13:38:39
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Best Time to know the Vipasana course is still Vipasana course, when the real Vipasana has come.  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:55:07
Johann: Best to make Vipassana when there is no fear of Samsara... *irony*

2020 Mar 12 12:51:48
Johann: Waht about changing the date to one when there is no traffic because their are dying much more people every day...

2020 Mar 12 12:50:27
Johann: Best time when there is no more sickness and death in the world or? Samsara fans.

2020 Mar 12 12:41:57
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz  :) _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:40:49
Cheav Villa: I kana heard from Bang Puthy, Bhante Indanano wants to change the schedule for Vipasana because of most afraid of spreading Covid_19. :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:36:56
Cheav Villa: I kana also dont like to sit as long for the Vipassana Course. Vipasana in any sitting,  walking, standing..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:31:33
Johann: (Don't tell it further: He is terrible afraid that he possible needs to take part on the Vipassana course at Wat Akyum)

2020 Mar 12 12:28:23
Johann: They hold him in what's app Samsara caught. *bling*

2020 Mar 12 12:25:45
Johann: He is to afraid because people always tell anything further, my person guesses. To much watching Devas  :)

2020 Mar 12 12:23:21
Cheav Villa: I kana had heard of Master Moritz wants to go back soon to enjoy the Samsara  ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_. As I kana know the Samara is everywhere in this worldily.  :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 12 12:14:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 20:10:03
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:35:33
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 12:02:48
Johann: Not only, also for heavens, but if well done of course (Uposatha was held even before the Buddha as well, Nyom)

2020 Mar 09 11:33:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Uposatha is for magga and phalas only   :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 11:31:36
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 09 10:50:08
Johann: A blessed full moon uposatha, maggas and phalas, all.

2020 Mar 08 10:10:28
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 08 08:52:14
Johann: May all observe a blessed full moon Uposatha, those who tend to do it today.

2020 Mar 07 22:47:14
Johann: We includes all wordlings, Nyom. Something that can be changed.

2020 Mar 07 22:45:33
Mohan Gnanathilake: We are susceptible to the worldly conditions (loka-dhamma). Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2020 Mar 06 12:03:17
You Y:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu Bhante.

2020 Mar 06 09:37:33
You Y: Bhante Johann,  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Could you please share me the dhama that I read yesterday?

2020 Mar 05 20:58:15
Moritz: Probably all coming from the messengers (WhatsApp, Telegram), where I just informed a little. :)

2020 Mar 05 20:56:28
Johann: 4 guests already, so nothing to worry, Brah google and his host will follow as long be traceable.

2020 Mar 05 20:52:41
Moritz: Yes, they may come back when the new address is indexed by a search engine.

2020 Mar 05 20:48:50
Johann: Nyom, Nyom. Robots and google may not follow redirects

2020 Mar 05 20:41:44
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:41:28
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:38:20
Moritz: 0 guests here - unusual sight :-)

2020 Mar 05 20:38:07
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Mar 05 20:38:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Mar 04 11:49:51
Johann: Nyom

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Topic Summary

Posted by: Johann
« on: October 12, 2018, 05:43:18 PM »

On another place a person, having seen the power of gratitude, asked how to increase and maintain it. Since the fact of goodness and gratitude, giving and receiving, "debts" at least, is something people in outer lands totally reject and try to get ride of this reality of Samsara in ways of denying it, it's seldom to get any approve and encouragements, advices how to develope.

Having shortly accessed such "modern Dhamma place", my person does not even like or feel benefit to backlink to the occasion .

Even for so called advanced scholars, possible especially, this topic, an importand heart of right view and to understand the traditional ways of practice, is stuff hard to bear.

May it be of support for all those who are willing to put Saddha at first place, take it to heart, put it into practice and see for oneself as it really is.



Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community   _/\_ ,

my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and interested Visitors,

 *sgift*




(a practicing person, was looking for approve if the feeling, that gratitude lead to decrease greed and desire, is right and how to practice to keep it up: )

Yes, having a sense of gratitude, seeing the endless loop of debts in this world, is not only the foundation of letting of all five kinds of stinginess but also leads to the ending of desire and liberation. A person of gratitude, never forgetting that he depended, depends on so many sacrifies, beginging by oneself, voluntary, and not at all voluntary but by force, can be sure that if meeting that of what is beyond debt, hearing the good Dhamma, origin, cause and way of practice to gain the state of one able to give, is not only able to attain Jhana but also to reach paths and the highest fruit.

A person of ingratitude, what ever trying, is and will be lost and it is because of this one should avoid to associate with people who pay no gratitude aside of Maras short enjoyments.

Reflection on the many sacrifices beyond so little joy, is something that should be done by those still rejoicing on sensuality as much as possible, reflecting gain, debt and lose in it, the many pain behind.

All Brahmaviharas, destinated to liberation,, especially Mudita, are based on a sense of gratitude, a sense of right view. The path to liberation start with gratitude, is it's only door.

Gratitude and proper fear of debts, a sense of it, increases all desires to abound what is unskilfull and increases all desires to develope and hold on skilfulness.

The meditation of Mudita (rejoicing with ones own and all other beings done goodness and gains) has gratitude as it's cause, aim and release, embodies the joy of letting go best.

Again , maybe now possible to see, to trace.

Also this lesson might be of support: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro

One may find some additional explainings here, or better just start to learn about it by doing where rejoicing with good deeds of others is practiced, giving into at fist hand to understand: Sharing merits - (pattanumodana & pattidana)

Never ever think like a thief, a "smart one", because if doing so, one is lost easy self-overestimation (thinking "I am worthy", all "my merits" ripping...) and not easily will find in the near of the Noble Domain, a borderland again.

Three kind of people are there, goodness can hardly till never be payed back again: Bahukārasuttaṃ .

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

24. "Bhikkhus, these three persons have done much to a person. Which three? Bhikkhus, the person gone to whom this person takes refuge in the Enlightenment, in the Teaching and the Community of bhikkhus.

"Bhikkhus, the person gone to whom this person knows as it really is, this is unpleasant, this is the arising of unpleasantness, this is the cessation of unpleasantness and this is the path leading to the cessation of unpleasantness.

"Again, bhikkhus, the person gone to whom, this person destroys desires, releases the mind and released through wisdom, here and now abides having realized. Bhikkhus, these three persons have done much to this person.

"Bhikkhus, it is not possible that these three persons could be thoroughly repaid with gratitude, by this person revering him, attending on him, clasping hands towards him and honouring him with robes, morsel food, dwellings and medicinal requisites."

But "gifted" of such, the end of tasks and duties is secured and reached. (Debts are unavoidable, but to whom?

So is it that a sign of having entered the Noble Domain is overwhelming gratitude toward the Sublime Tripple Gems, having the Sublime Buddha as it's leader.

Gratitude is the paths beginning and it's very end.

Usual training an technics to get familar to a minset of gratitude:

Note that this giving falls actually into the sphere of Silas/duties for one having gone for refuge and are required to not lose the refuge (e.g. breaking the Refuge)

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"These two people are hard to find in the world. Which two? The one who is first to do a kindness, and the one who is grateful for a kindness done and feels obligated to repay it. These two people are hard to find in the world."
Quote from: AN 2.119 : Dullabha Sutta — Hard to Find

  • Service/fulfill duties (veyyāvacca , german) for ones "gods" (starting by parents... teacher/admirable friends, the Juwels)

  • Practicing Mudita (Pattānuppadānaby = transf. & Abbhanumodana =sharing) sharing merits (dedication of ones merits done, giving back joy and play it forward)


    More advanced, if duties are done, is to focus total on practice and complete the task. How ever, even on such level (hardly possible when living in an household), gratitude and fullfilment of duties in possible sphere, does not disappear.

    Who ever rejects to fulfill his duties in the releations he nourishes on, will quickly waste his/her past merits allowing his/her stand within, or increases a lot of debts/demerits.

    Once off of gratitude means to dwell in a outer region . One is wise to do all effort to enter and remain in borderlands and to fall not appart. It's not so that outer lands are total void of gratitude, by it's Mara and bondage that earn it (sensuality, pride, conceit, desire for becoming or desire for destruction)

    Som Anumodana puñña kusala!



    Previous talk to Upasaka Danilo asking "How to foster gratitude...?", mentioned above:

    - Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

    "Monks, these two people are hard to find in the world. Which two? The one who is first to do a kindness, and the one who is grateful for a kindness done and feels obligated to repay it. These two people are hard to find in the world." ...and more on lessons of gratitude

    Danilo, your observations are totally right in regard one has already a broader view and the question is a good and useful for one to understand things better. But & Because:
     Yet most people are not even able to fulfill their duties (break silas and do not take what is not give, or pay the price, hold to promises) and stay to contracts (virtue) in relation of sensuallity (material things and reverence). The next higher stage then is toward more selfless giving of material things. So even if most made in this way, it's useless to build a tower on a muddy baseless place and one needs to start where the mud is places, do the hard and "dirty", painful job, first.

    Above the first gods (those giving birth, parents), if those are recognised, one can walk on to the higher goods, , those introducing, nurishing this the four needs (food, shelter, cloth, medicine), those teaching, leading to heaven and then even to liberation.

    If the base is not done, e.g. not even obligation as reward of sensuality is recognices and duties payed off, if even parents are not put on the right scale, there is no way to ever develope that much freedom to be able to interact and receive on a higher scale. One makes nothing but more and more debts on this way, in all directions, even if feeling released by certain thought constructs.

    It's maybe importand to understand that parents can aside of being the first gods be also the higherst. Some are that gifted, some even recognice it.

    The issue of giving and the issue of duties (sila) which also may include giving is not that easy understood. Sometimes giving is a deal for expected gain, sometimes a required obligation for a relation (deal), sometime a payment for release seldom really generosity and it is gain and again worthy to note that the treasure of real generosity is only gained by a person of integrity, e.g. comes after perfection of silas.

    Most not even managed in regard of giving at large plays all in the section of sila, starting from proper veneration to service and assistance.

    What the proper places for generosity are, for all being, regardless of relation, nice or bad, is mentioned in timely giving and is of course always excelled by Noble Ones and those train for it.

    It's very difficult to make western or better modern people basics (at least right view) understandable because they are not at all used to generosity, feelings of obligation, gratitude... but raised in a society, if good, where all has a to be payed marked price, and no, really no, neither at home, nor at school, good basic conducts are trained.

    For defilements even a pleasure to here that giving to immoral people is not conductive, yet they would not include the own person when making their greedy excuses to deny even obligations.

    May person once had a longer discussion with a typical western Buddhist and it might be of use, even the place itself there is not one to advice for a good. The topics discussion and links may explain certain basics and misunderstandings: Dana (Generosity, Charity) "Abhidhamma in daily life "

    To understand guṇā (best transated as "giver" or "benefactor") here are also some explaining. Usually translated as goodness or "people of goodness", it's meaning starts by the sense organs and is then used for goodness making real sense and beyound: guṇā គុណ - Gönner, Verbindubg/Band | benefactor, string/bound (just in German, if one like to translate, feel given, already generously translated into english)

    It's impossible to walk a spiritual way if not having placed all benefactors on the right place in the heart at a matter that even most modern or western monks are not able to get fixed. At least it's underlying right view and becoming a person of integrity, either on faith, Dhamma or by entering the stream to get really ride of macchariya which only Noble ones, but right from the beginning are free from. If that and gratitude is still a problem, don't even think on Jhanas or any attainments: impossible.

    Since those basic topics are merelt tabu and not welcome at all, leading even most to anger and aversion, the so called buddhist community in the west and modern world is merely just a wellness and trade branch and not really a source of real attainments at all, does not even have any basic positiv effects in normal live and sociaty which can be easy observed everywhere.

    But back to a many helpful "classification" of worthyness in regard of people or relations, of course not really possible to distinguished in a very firm way, but merely an orientation and a source to think and reflect more about it:

    A raw ranking based on it, in regard of worthy (general, can differ in cases aside of Noble Ones):

    * Ordinary beings (all)
    * Ordinary people
    * Ordinary beings hungry, lacking existencial needs
    * Normal friends and wordily fellows
    * Normal elders

    People of goodness:

    * Wordily teachers
    * Ones family and relatives
    * Ones first goods, parents
    * People keeping 5 precepts
    * People keeping 8 pr.
    * People keeping 10 precepts

    * Homeless 10 precepts
    * Samanera
    * Young Bhikkhu
    * Full Bhikkhu
    * Thera
    * Maha Thera

    Ecxeled by innwardly qualities, case by case:

    * wordlings
    * Layperson following the training (still enjoys sensuality)
    * Recluse/monastic following the training (still enjoying sensual pleasure)
    * Layperson living the wholly life in full, following the Arahats
    * Recluse/monastic living the wholly live full, following the Arahats

    * Noble One 1. Path winner

    * Fruit Winner..2, 3, 4 Path winner
    Arahat

    * Buddha

    In regard of Noble Ones, Recluse excels Lay person.


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    What is the proper way to foster generosity and gratitude?
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    I can see how generosity and gratitude are important as means to foster right resolve. But what if someone do good things sometimes due a sense of obligation, but also cause much harm to you? For example, this mother. Given that our resources and gains are limited, it is not much better to support the virtuous one rather than the unvirtuous?

    And in the case of supporting the unvirtuous and unwise, how this would not contradict others teachings like "do not associate with fools" and "give a gift in a proper time"? (a unwise person would surely use a material gift unwisely causing harm for himself/herself and others).

    personal-practice dana right-intention
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    asked Feb 12 at 12:55

    Danilo
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    "Monks, these two people are hard to find in the world. Which two? The one who is first to do a kindness, and the one who is grateful for a kindness done and feels obligated to repay it. These two people are hard to find in the world." ...and more on lessons of gratitude

    Danilo, your observations are totally right in regard one has already a broader view and the question is a good and useful one to understand things better. But & Because: Yet most people are not even able to fullfil their duties (break silas and do not take what is not give, or pay the price, hold to promises) and stay to contracts (virtue) in relation of sensuallity (material things and reverence). The next higher stage then is toward more selfless giving of material things. So even if most made in this way, it's useless to build a tower on a muddy baseless place and one needs to start where the mud is places, do the hard and "dirty", painful job, first.

    Above the first gods (those giving birth, parents), if those are recognised, one can walk on to the higher goods, , those introducing, nurishing this the four needs (food, shelter, cloth, medicine), those teaching, leading to heaven and then even to liberation.

    If the base is not done, e.g. not even obligation as reward of sensuality is recognices and duties payed off, if even parents are not put on the right scale, there is no way to ever develope that much freedom to be able to interact and receive on a higher scale. One makes nothing but more and more debts on this way, in all directions, even if feeling released by certain thought constructs.

    It's maybe importand to understand that parents can aside of being the first gods be also the higherst. Some are that gifted, some even recognice it.

    The issue of giving and the issue of duties (sila) which also may include giving is not that easy understood. Sometimes giving is a deal for expected gain, sometimes a required obligation for a relation (deal), sometime a payment for release seldom really generosity and it is gain and again worthy to note that the treasure of real generosity is only gained by a person of integrity, e.g. comes after perfection of silas.

    Most not even managed in regard of giving at large plays all in the section of sila, starting from proper veneration to service and assistance.

    What the proper places for generosity are, for all being, regardless of relation, nice or bad, is mentioned in timely giving and is of course always excelled by Noble Ones and those train for it.

    It's very difficult to make western or better modern people basics (at least right view) understandable because they are not at all used to generosity, feelings of obligation, gratitude... but raised in a society, if good, where all has a to be payed marked price, and no, really no, neither at home, nor at school, good basic conducts are trained.

    For defilements even a pleasure to here that giving to immoral people is not conductive, yet they would not include the own person when making their greedy excuses to deny even obligations.

    May person once had a longer discussion with a typical western Buddhist and it might be of use, even the place itself there is not one to advice for a good. The topics discussion and links may explain certain basics and misunderstandings: Dana (Generosity, Charity) "Abhidhamma in daily life "

    To understand guṇā (best transated as "giver" or "benefactor") here are also some explaining. Usually translated as goodness or "people of goodness", it's meaning starts by the sense organs and is then used for goodness making real sense and beyound: guṇā គុណ - Gönner, Verbindubg/Band | benefactor, string/bound (just in German, if one like to translate, feel given)

    It's impossible to walk a spiritual way if not having placed all benefactors on the right place in the heart at a matter that even most modern or western monks are not able to get fixed. At least it's underlying right view and becoming a person of integrity, either on faith, Dhamma or by entering the stream to get really ride of macchariya which only Noble ones, but right from the beginning are free from. If that and gratitude is still a problem, don't even think on Jhanas or any attainments: impossible.

    Since those basic topics are merelt tabu and not welcome at all, leading even most to anger and aversion, the so called buddhist community in the west and modern world is merely just a wellness and trade branch and not really a source of real attainments at all, does not even have any basic positiv effects in normal live and sociaty which can be easy observed everywhere.

    But back to a many helpful "classification" of worthyness in regard of people or relations, of course not really possible to distinguished in a very firm way, but merely an orientation and a source to think and reflect more about it:

    A raw ranking based on it, in regard of worthy (general, can differ in cases aside of Noble Ones):

    Ordinary beings

    Ordinary people

    Ordinary beings hungry, lacking existencial needs

    Normal friends and wordily fellows

    Normal elders

    People of goodness:

    Wordily teachers

    Ones family and relatives

    Ones first goods, parents

    People keeping 5 precepts

    People keeping 8 pr.

    People keeping 10 precepts

    Homeless 10 precepts

    Samanera

    Young Bhikkhu

    Full Bhikkhu

    Thera

    Maha Thera

    Ecxeled by innwardly qualities, case by case:

    wordlings

    Layperson following the training (still enjoys sensuality)

    Recluse/monastic following the training (still enjoying sensual pleasure)

    Layperson living the wholly life in full, following the Arahats

    Recluse/monastic living the wholly live full, following the Arahats

    Noble One 1. Path winner

    Fruit Winner..2, 3, 4 Patg winner
    Arahat

    Buddha

    In regard of Noble Ones, Recluse excels Lay person.

    At least, not as a demand or just to belittle but as a matter of generosity and compassion, Danilo, so that you may have more ease and more doors to good places open in future, to train youself in good conduct, is actually not respectfull, not praisworthy and possible for the most cases a hard hindrance to ask indirect, without reverence and yes of course in certain equal manner. So for normal and strict holding on secure ways, Danilo might not only get any useful answer but also be known, like many, as someone with less virtues not at all worthy of gifts. But again, that is just for you and others grow, being aware that good conduct and proper behaviour is something unknown an utopistic in the modern and internet realms.

    One might feel free to go into the topic even deeper or to train here , on a given and more proper place. At least most might be really wasted giving, as mentioned in the question, yet for those possible to get healed still.

    How to foster generosity and gratitude?

  • Again and formost: association with people of integrity and generosity, gratefull people, people rejocing in deeds of giving and devotion, able to share merits and encourage to such and by avoiding places and people not used to, the usuall "cool" ones, like poison.
  • Rendering service and assistance in monasteries, for monks, for elders, teacher, virtuous. (e.g. practice Silas and pay obligations proper back or even without hope of reward)
  • Practice generosity where ever there is a possibility.
  • Learn to great, adress, pay respect and good verbal and bodily conduct and use it everywhere, whether usual or not (it also helps to cut of "enemies" for prosperty)
  • Get used and train youself in all of the ten kinds of merit-making .

  • Stick to right view, even it goes against all grains and let it be adviser for your daily action rather to let your defilements make use of transcend right view while still living next a punch of fetters and a refrigerator.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart . [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action."

Once, again, right view is adopted by faith, certain vision or even clear seen and gained, generosity, after virtue and gratitude proper and right placed is no more a matter at all. At this point, not out of reason, one is incapable to do grave, even deliberated misconduct and behave improper.

May it be for release and ease, who ever might be capable to take, make use and understand.

And be carefull, it's not free and not without strings and one might be already hardly caught, with no chance to fall back any more!

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Bahukārasuttaṃ
Has done much

Of course very useful and in same value Utopia: Opening the Door to the Dhamma: Respect in Buddhist Thought & Practice

The orderline duties » sila » generosity ... from the gross to the fine, can btw. be also traced likewise, as tried to point out at the beginning, in the Mangala Sutta and at each level of fullfilment or able to renounce certain relation and it's benefits, debts are growing void and giving is step by step growing to real generosity and compassion. Once a state around the stanca 6. and 7 is reached, no more falling back, downward, will accur for one.

Anumodana!