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Talkbox

2020 May 23 06:43:43
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 22 21:09:34
Johann: May all still continue to spend a blessed New moon Uposatha till break on of a new day (of course good to continue without break). Mudita

2020 May 21 20:16:55
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 21 19:30:50
Johann: Nothing more a blessing as to do not cling to a specific Nikaya, since one can easy take the opportunity of doing theUposatha often two days a new. May all always make the best of given possibilities.

2020 May 20 21:19:41
Johann: Sadhu

2020 May 20 20:44:31
Cheav Villa: May Bhante get well soon.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 20 20:43:13
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 18 14:55:14
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 18 12:17:04
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 17 21:21:28
Johann: Nyom Sophorn

2020 May 17 07:36:11
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 17 07:14:16
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 17 06:01:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 May 16 20:42:01
Johann: Bhante

2020 May 15 20:13:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 15 19:17:25
Johann: A blessed Siladay ending for those who keep(ed) it today.

2020 May 14 09:09:08
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 14 06:17:12
Johann: A bl3ssed Sila-day those observing it today.

2020 May 12 21:00:24
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 12 19:10:56
Johann: May no one ever, even a moment, forget: "Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven, lordship over all worlds:    the fruit of stream-entry    excels them."

2020 May 10 15:27:11
Depabhasadhamma: Thank you Johann

2020 May 10 15:26:00
Johann: "stand", taking, holding a stand makes it possible more understandable and fits better to it.

2020 May 10 15:24:35
Johann: Welcome Depabasadhamma, Atma will open a topic on it.

2020 May 10 15:04:51
Depabhasadhamma: I am in need of assistance. I am writing a paper about the Three Marks of Existence. I understand the three marks, however, I am befuddled by the meaning and use of the word "existence." Is this English word the translation of the Pali word thiti? Does the word "existence" imply life, living, consci

2020 May 09 21:15:38
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 20:48:57
Johann: Apsara in Pali: accharā, translation actually "A Whoo!"

2020 May 09 20:45:38
Johann: "...“Then take joy, Nanda. Take joy! I am your guarantor for getting 500 dove-footed nymphs.”..."

2020 May 09 20:45:17
Johann: "“What do you think, Nanda? Which is lovelier, better looking, more charming: the Sakyan girl, the envy of the countryside, or these 500 dove-footed nymphs?”..."

2020 May 09 20:43:26
Johann: There was a Bhikkhu "who got an email from an ex-co-dweller" and thought he will return to lower life, Nyom: Nanda Sutta

2020 May 09 20:35:41
Johann: It's actually just about the clothes, since his livemode is already a great Samaneras one.

2020 May 09 20:33:48
Cheav Villa: Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ I kana never heard about the Bhuddha promised..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 09 20:33:17
Johann: Till end of Vassa maybe?

2020 May 09 20:25:18
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ Should try an ordination which in 7days.  _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 20:16:21
Johann: Apsara (dove feet Devatas).

2020 May 09 20:13:19
Johann: Temporary ordination is pretty normal, 3 days, a month, a Vassa... and not to forget that the Buddha promised union with the Asparas, which are beyond being compareable to others...

2020 May 09 19:25:54
Moritz: No no, I really prefer to be a householder, even though not having a house at the moment. I am not much inclined towards nekkhamma...  ^-^
... even though already doing some nekkhamma now, but not hoping to do so for the long term....

2020 May 09 19:24:05
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 May 09 19:08:20
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 09 19:00:58
Johann: When not working he is already used to where his beige light clean cloth, morning, noon, evening and already good organized.

2020 May 09 18:52:05
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 18:39:04
Johann: Nyom has his working dress and his light formal dress. White he might have possible to much troubles, so better to convince him toward robes.  :)

2020 May 09 17:38:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ Master Moritz should wear white clothes.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 07 15:18:07
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 07 10:33:24
Johann: Householder clothes are really no more proper for Upasaka Khemadasa.... good to take him fear of the robes

2020 May 07 10:21:10
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 07 10:19:33
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 07 06:02:32
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 07 05:46:38
Johann: Sadhu

2020 May 07 03:25:02
Khemakumara: May it be a path-and fruitful vesak Uposatha

2020 May 06 16:07:14
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 06 16:02:35
Johann: A blessed Vesaka Puja all, today and tomorrow, in reflection the goodness and qualities of the Sublime Buddha.

2020 May 04 21:25:10
Johann: followed by another overload by huawei-search engines... fixed

2020 May 04 20:31:45
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 04 20:25:53
Johann: A MS search engine (Bing) had overloaded the server capacity and might had caused the page not to be reached, but a cave-programmer quickly solved the issue, becoming aware of it. Sadhu

2020 May 03 21:13:46
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante Ariyadhammika _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 20:32:57
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 19:15:52
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.

2020 May 03 15:01:43
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 03 12:53:08
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 May 03 12:07:17
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 May 03 12:00:57
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 09:39:36
Johann: ...and the snake hunts the mice...

2020 May 03 09:11:20
Johann: Dwelling like Devas under Devas, peaceful, respectful, careful, harmless

2020 Apr 30 10:05:08
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 29 21:15:43
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 29 21:08:53
Johann: May all spend a meritful end of Sila-day, those who taking on it today, and maybe continue with those doing so tomorrow.

2020 Apr 29 20:09:39
Johann: Nyom Villa

2020 Apr 29 20:07:29
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 26 20:26:31
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa

2020 Apr 26 20:23:57
Cheav Villa: and Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Apr 26 20:23:33
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 26 19:56:30
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Apr 26 19:56:25
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 26 08:18:19
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 26 07:18:02
Johann: Ādīnava , អដីនវ, As one of ten perceptions: AN 10.60

2020 Apr 26 07:09:32
Johann: May Dukkha be visible for all, so to stay on the path  that leads beyond and liberation.

2020 Apr 25 16:57:34
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 25 15:54:00
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Apr 23 18:41:59
Johann: Sadhu for care to report and assist

2020 Apr 23 18:39:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ I kana now not get notification.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 23 15:04:07
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 23 13:45:57
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Apr 22 11:17:56
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2020 Apr 22 06:38:01
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 Apr 22 05:45:37
Khemakumara: karuṇā, corona? which one prefers?   may it a fruit- and pathful Uposatha!

2020 Apr 21 19:53:51
Johann: If Nyom likes to use Atmas tablet and Sim, just pick it up at any time.

2020 Apr 21 19:49:09
Moritz: Smart connection works well.

2020 Apr 21 19:48:53
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante, mobile hotspot from the cave does not really reach well here. So can be turned off. Thank you. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 21 19:48:12
Johann: Making posts work for Nyom without errors?

2020 Apr 21 19:47:18
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 21 19:22:08
Johann: So email does not work? Shoutbox sometimes needs longer because of internet connection. Sadhu for feedback.

2020 Apr 21 18:41:22
Cheav Villa: I kana still did not get the notification beceuse of new password. and shout have to write two times.   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 21 18:25:13
Johann: Please let it be know if you meet similar issue.

2020 Apr 21 18:24:37
Johann: It seems as posting is not possible because of errors currently. Nyom Moritz is informed via email.

2020 Apr 21 17:15:42
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 21 17:02:42
Johann:  May all who observe the Uposatha today have had a blissful undertaking seen by doing so!

2020 Apr 20 20:59:39
Johann: (gave should be grave/gross)

2020 Apr 20 20:58:39
Johann: "We" = no peace at first place. But doing than for oneself and with it share to all others, that is possible, no we (= gave sakkayaditthi, the idea od we)

2020 Apr 20 20:55:50
Johann: No higher principle then Nibbana, peace. Nati santi param sukham. The is no happiness higher them real peace, Nyom.

2020 Apr 20 08:49:30
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir jemals ein hohes Prinzip haben! Dhamma Grüße aus Sri Lanka!

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Author Topic: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?  (Read 1531 times)

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Offline Johann

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My person, thinking that a single standard is very needed to easy handle all the scripts at ati.eu is still not sure which standard to follow.

(a) (ISO 15919) is actually my persons preference, since it reminds not only on the circle used in many traditional scripts above the letter but also on the position of the tongue. It's also used by the elders and those not depriving from modern scholars (found merely outwardly of the tradition). Disadvantages are that the letter is far not so common in certain char-sets and often not visible. Software is at large designed for the second version.

(a) (ALA-LC) is the broad used standard but it does not only easy lead toward a "sanskrit pronunciation" but can be easy mistaken with the Sanskrit letter "ṃ".

(a)ŋ is maybe even more pleasing in right distinction, yet it goes easy in conflict with which seems to be actually already a derived form of .

If it would be like traditional scripts, just a sign above: Sំ or Saំ not Saṁ, or Saṃ or Saŋ and it's special Saṅ, it would be somehow more easier: more សំ, united, bond together, so to speak.

Never found any deeper elaboration on the "mystic" sam vs. sang, yet pronouncing of certain kamma is made in two ways to get not the wrong, it remains possible for may a mystic.

Maybe Bhante Varado , out of compassion, might be willing and able to share liberating hints and advice here.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2019, 06:19:47 PM »
Quote from: Bhante via email
Dear Venerable Johann,

Which should we use: ṁ ṃ or ŋ?

Note that ṃ is favoured by the Pali Text Society in the latest Pali Dictionary by Margaret Cone, and also on the VRI Chatthaya Sangha ROM. For the sake of harmony, I recommend we follow their lead. The Pali Text Society has established itself as the world authority in terms of Roman lettering. VRI is likewise worthy of respect This can hardly be ignored.

... [splitt into new topic]

All best wishes,

Varado

Sadhu, Bhante Varado for the generosity of share some additional bases. It how ever, reflects a very "western", "householder-scholar" way and as usual total ignores the Sangha as actually authority.
ṁ was actually used by the Pali Text Sociaty at the beginnings, probably switched to ṃ since more common in computer systems, char-sets.
The Thai Sangha uses ṁ, so also the western Dhammayut order.
ṃ may cause future troubles in mixing it with the Sanskrik ṃ.
ŋ is often used by learned Monks from Sri Lanka.

My person does not think that it is "for the sake of productivity" proper to just follow "householder-tradition", yet surely more easy when tending to depend on "householders" and their means rather than of what the Sangha owns.

As not interested to produce GNU things, but dedicate for those having left home, my person thinks it's good to consider such well.

...[parts splitt off into new topic]

* Johann : Bhante could easier and given communicate direct. Just pushing replay bottom. If there are technical hindrances, may Bhante please let it be known. If other reasons, no problem to email either.

Of course those are just my persons thoughts, carring about proper ways and means first, and as not in a market-battle, just that of what is possible.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 11:03:31 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Use of third part sources, share of heritage, taking on trust.
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 11:06:04 AM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Use of third part sources, share of heritage, taking on trust. " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 11:59:33 AM »
ŋ is carefully used for Pali by PTS in works comparing different languages, like in their dictionary, to avoid confusion with the Sanskrit m-dot letter. It's actually a very common character, U+014B, having not really a serious Uppercase. The Problem is that the character causes easy confusion with , the fifth letter, last of the first row

deprives from the "Latin Extended Additional", U+1E41 upper case U+1E40 (certain browsers do not support it, my Person does not see it in Chrome- Android, for example)

U+1E43, upper case U+1E40. Even near the above most browser and scripts support it.

Reading a little, the modern use of dot-under is seemingly a ISTA-convention and not really originated in older traditions:

In the Devanagari script, anusvara is represented with a dot (bindu) above the letter (e.g. मं). In the International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST), the corresponding symbol is ṃ (m with an underdot). Some transcriptions render notation of phonetic variants used in some Vedic shakhas with variant transcription (ṁ).

In writing Sanskrit, the anusvara is often used as an alternative representation of the nasal stop with the same place of articulation as the following plosive. For example, [əŋɡə] 'limb (of the body)' may be written with either a conjunct, अङ्ग aṅga, or with an anusvara, अंग aṃga. A variant of the anusvara, the anunāsika or 'candrabindu', was used more explicitly for nasalized vowels, as in अँश aṃśa for [ə̃ɕə] 'portion'.[7]

Underdot has actually a total different pronouncing:

In Inari Sami, an underdot denotes a half-long voiced consonant: đ̣, j̣, ḷ, ṃ, ṇ, ṇj, ŋ̣, ṛ, and ṿ. The underdot is used in dictionaries, textbooks, and linguistic publications only....

The underdot is also used in the Devanagari script, where it is called nukta.

ISTA:

The International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST) is a transliteration scheme that allows the lossless romanization of Indic scripts as employed by Sanskrit and related Indic languages. It is based on a scheme that emerged during the nineteenth century from suggestions by Charles Trevelyan, William Jones, Monier Monier-Williams and other scholars, and formalised by the Transliteration Committee of the Geneva Oriental Congress, in September 1894.[1] IAST makes it possible for the reader to read the Indic text unambiguously, exactly as if it were in the original Indic script. It is this faithfulness to the original scripts that accounts for its continuing popularity amongst scholars.

As thought this usual deprives from Hindi, Brahmic, Mahayana and norther traditions, later, prefering also the "am" spelling rather then the in the Pali Tradition used "ang" spelling. Of which first usually is not understood in traditional countries when citing Pali.

It's a matter of nature that "on-householding"-traditions are most influent global.

Nobody, so serious it is, in the west, would understand when one says "Sangsara" instead of "Samsara". Thats a sample of the two worlds. The use of the Sanskrik m with dot below, simply puts into the decay of traditional Pali pronouncing. Who would think much only some years ago after change. In ten years, with the decay of citing traditions, with the missing of differences, it would be simply gone.

Best, since its used as a diacritic also in other traditional scripts, would be to follow here with a diacritic also in roman script, possible making use of the most used ring above as well. Saំsar(a), Saំveg(a). Saំំgh(a) or Saṅgh(a)?

This is something my person would give the Venerables to consider wisely and it's never really of long term disadvantage to accept burdens and bear limited global acceptance.

It would be, as the occation seem proper to express, good if the Sangha and it's language would be given autonomous language recognition, incl. fonts, characters and unicode block. This matters actually many different scripts, and thinking on Khmer transliterations and ways in action, following "productivity" it destroys a lot and nobody will in 1 or two generation be able to trace origins any more.

Yet of course its something only those in worldly charge, if wise and attentive, could order and give, and not the result of "marxists" natural laws conducted by crowd work and flow.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:22:35 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
In which way would be Venerable prefer their heritage be rendered, independent from possible preasures in regard of the common issues in the worlds of trade, productivity and livelihoods, so that it would be of long term benefit for the Sublime Sangha as carrier of the Gems in this world? My person trust that he does not possible disturb on useless ground.

Maybe, aside of Bhante Varado ,  Bhante Nyanadassana , Bhante Ariyadhammika , Bhante Indaññāno , Bhante Hasapanno , Bhante Khematto , Bhante Thanuttamo ,  Bhante Bodhi  , community of Wat metta ( Dhammatalks  ), to adress only some (please may all Venerables feel main part of it) of the Venerables direct, would like to share their wisdom and preferences here, so that others could follow and possible arrange things joyfully.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 01:10:40 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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