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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Mar 29 21:32:04
Dhammañāṇa: 500 visitors  Amazon after AI food.

2024 Mar 24 19:07:11
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ 😌

2024 Mar 24 14:13:29
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 24 06:25:25
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha by following the conducts of the Arahats.

2024 Mar 23 13:11:16
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 21 01:07:56
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 21 00:28:58
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 14:25:49
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 12:06:29
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 20 11:24:06
blazer: Good morning everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 27 14:47:22
អរិយវង្ស:   _/\_ _/\__/\_

2023 Nov 27 05:41:32
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Anapanasati- Fullmoon and reflect the goodness of Ven Sāriputta as well today.

2023 Nov 20 19:18:13
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 20 18:20:15
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 20 02:48:24
Moritz: Hello _/\_ Still possible to join: An-other Journey into the East 2023/24

2023 Nov 18 13:55:11
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 12 01:09:01
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Nov 12 00:45:21
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 19:42:10
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 07:17:02
Dhammañāṇa: សិលា​នាំ​ទៅ​រក​ឯករាជ្យ​នៃ​ជាតិ! សូមឱ្យមនុស្សជាច្រើនប្រារព្ធទិវាឯករាជ្យ(ពី)ជាតិ។

2023 Nov 09 07:06:56
Dhammañāṇa: Sila leads to independence of Jati! May many observe a conductive Independence day.

2023 Nov 07 00:54:02
Dhammañāṇa: Nyoum

2023 Nov 07 00:39:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 15:47:51
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 12:21:27
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila observation day today.

2023 Oct 30 15:17:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's common in to give up that what's given to do assist me toward release, common that seeking security in what binds.

2023 Oct 30 13:22:27
អរិយវង្ស: ព្រះអង្គ :) កូណាលុប delta chat ហើយ :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 23 18:56:09
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 22 20:36:01
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of this Sila-day.

2023 Oct 19 20:31:12
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom Sreyneang

2023 Oct 15 07:07:01
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 14 06:53:21
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a New moon Uposatha based on goodwill for all, find seclusion in the middle of family duties.

2023 Sep 29 07:35:30
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:23:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:03:11
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha and begin of the ancestor weeks by lived metta and virtue: lived gratitude toward all being, toward one self.

2023 Sep 22 22:07:43
Dhammañāṇa: If no rush turn toward reducing sensuality and make Silas the top of priority, it's to fear that an Atomic conflic will be chosen soon, in the battle of control of the "drugs".

2023 Sep 22 14:59:39
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 22 06:35:51
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Uposatha Observance on this Sila-day, by conducting similar the Arahats.

2023 Sep 16 19:29:27
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 16 19:29:13
blazer: Hello everyone! I've just come back home. I had a long trip and no sleep for more than 30 hours, but currently feel quite good. I've had a good experience, i'm happy. I've found out much inspiration and many ideas about the training and the holy life. I'll recollect and write about them as soon as i've taken some rest. Hope to find you all well and in good health  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 15 05:25:24
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 14 21:09:49
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of New moon Uposatha today (later as no connection before).

2023 Sep 10 01:55:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_?

2023 Sep 09 18:52:54
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 09 18:52:28
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

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Author Topic: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?  (Read 322 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« on: September 17, 2022, 11:34:05 AM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Dark part - how to get ride of them, how to regard them? , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


I agree, mixing mental intoxicants may be Very dangerous.

I have taken many "risky" choices with those tools in the past.
If one wanna work with truths about those tools, one should not forget honesty, openess, and recognizing its own faults and ignorance. Shame in bad doings is good, shame in having abandoned the path or losing faith is good, but no shame in not being perfect.

Also, when transgressing with such "tools", it is extremely important to investigate the body and the mind and the effects produced by those "tools", so making true experience and reviewing it. I'm finding out most of the time those tools are abused and produce a subtle (eventually not that subtle) pleasure of the flesh. Then, bounding to this, one is guaranteed to gain suffering and to pay some interests.

Yes, these "tools" produce a lot of ill-effects, mostly the desire to take them again sometimes, because of its pleasure.
They are short escapes from displeasure, discomforts, dissatisfaction.
Sometimes one can have a good sounding excuse: "I take this just to be able to work, because I have not slept", "I want to carry more sand up the hill".
I can be easily convinced by such an excuse, for the amphetamine-like stuff.

Not knowing a better escape, like jhana, it's not so easy to see the immediate drawbacks with confidence.
There are drawbacks. But they are in the future.
But there are immediate drawbacks as well: Not seeing clearly, one does not see clearly that one does not see clearly.
So one can forget about it and enjoy and then regret.
In some cases the excuse had some validity. Then there is not too much regret.

Today I did not take the "medicine".
I am dissatisfied, displeased, disappointed with many things today. Sad.

I have become so used to distract myself from such feelings, instead of just looking at them.
When I was young I "enjoyed" just looking at all states of mind and body as they came, without needing any other "tools", just trying to develop, like told in this sutta:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"And how is one developed in body and developed in mind? There is the case where a pleasant feeling arises in a well-educated disciple of the noble ones. On being touched by the pleasant feeling, he doesn't become impassioned with pleasure, and is not reduced to being impassioned with pleasure. His pleasant feeling ceases. With the cessation of the pleasant feeling there arises a painful feeling. On being touched with the painful feeling, he doesn't sorrow, grieve, or lament, beat his breast or becomes distraught. When that pleasant feeling had arisen in him, it didn't invade his mind and remain because of his development of the body. When that painful feeling had arisen in him, it didn't invade his mind and remain because of his development of the mind. This is how one is developed in body and developed in mind."

I enjoyed doing that, just building strength, immunity from intoxication. I enjoyed this purity.
It is good to remember and try doing that again.


I still have not really understood: Why is one called "developed in body" (being able to tolerate and endure pleasure) and the other "developed in mind" (being able to tolerate and endure pain)?

Developed in body and mind means to see it's relation, dependency, while those not developed in Body and mind either take this or that real, fall onetime for that, or for this, Nyom Moritz . It's right on the topic here, in regard of the Niganthas ways.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 02:34:24 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Moritz

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2022, 01:51:46 PM »
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Thanks, Bhante.

But I just do not understand this distinction and the specific relation of the two distinct "developments" to body vs. mind.

The Buddha seems to make this distinction, assigning
tolerant to pleasure = developed in body
tolerant to pain = developed in mind

Why is one more related to the body, called "developed in body", and the other one more related to the mind, called "developed in mind"?

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2022, 02:31:03 PM »
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Thanks, Bhante.

But I just do not understand this distinction and the specific relation of the two distinct "developments" to body vs. mind.

The Buddha seems to make this distinction, assigning
tolerant to pleasure = developed in body
tolerant to pain = developed in mind

Why is one more related to the body, called "developed in body", and the other one more related to the mind, called "developed in mind"?

One developed in mind, in such sense, might have many mental ways to escape pain, like those train to bear all "just natural", but having not abond body and form, still consuming on it, the bearing has it's limit. Say: one day a larger wave will head over them. Many in the west, because not really knowing bodily pain, will be hardly touched when their merits run out. Let's take the fat yogi as an imagination here.

Does developed in body may endure bodily hardship for a long, then returning, because pain penetrates mentally (not knowing the escape) they amass again what abound before. Nyom might know it.

It's possible that one, by developing the body, restrain bodily, having heard the Dhamma, may also adopt the developing of mind. Going together, knowing mind&matter are co-rleated, they may gain development by body and mind.

One without the other wouldn't work out benefical, like either, taken as imagination, a flexible athletic as well as a bodily unhealthy philosopher, both will be touched by their limitations soon.

The Brahman in this Sutta suggest that the Sublime Buddha might have an ease to talk because not knowing suffering, suggesting being only developed in mind (of what he actually doesn't know what it means).

The Sublime Buddha explains how one is/gains development of body and mind, by understanding mind and matter, touch, right, having been instructed.
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Offline Moritz

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2022, 05:34:35 PM »
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Thanks for the helpful input, Bhante.

One developed in mind, in such sense, might have many mental ways to escape pain, like those train to bear all "just natural", but having not abond body and form, still consuming on it, the bearing has it's limit. Say: one day a larger wave will head over them. Many in the west, because not really knowing bodily pain, will be hardly touched when their merits run out. Let's take the fat yogi as an imagination here.
Many mental ways to escape pain: This might be jhana, or just habitual wholesome thoughts of enduring hardship and so on, seeing benefit in such strength, with a certain healthy pride seeing that one is capable of enduring unpleasentness.
The mind can be "larger" than the (mostly bodily) unpleasentness, having a higher escape.
This makes sense to me.

Does developed in body may endure bodily hardship for a long, then returning, because pain penetrates mentally (not knowing the escape) they amass again what abound before. Nyom might know it.
I know something about it, yes.

But this is what the Buddha calls "developed in body":

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

When that pleasant feeling had arisen in him, it didn't invade his mind and remain because of his development of the body.
It is about resistance or "immunity" against pleasent touches. These feelings do not invade the mind for one who is developed in body. He does not get easily impassioned, addicted, infatuated with such pleasent feelings.

But I don't understand: Why is this called "developmed in body", and the other called "developed in mind"?
I would think that being able to resist pleasure is also a development of the mind.

But the Buddha calls the resistance to pain "developed in mind", and the resistance to pleasure "developed in body".


When I left Ashram Thmo Duk after half a year of hard work and certain austerity I think it was not so much because I was overwhelmed by pain that I could not endure, but by the pleasure I was looking forward to. It was more the outlook of pleasure which invaded my mind, less the pain, I think.

So I think my greater lack was in the development of the body, if I understand the Buddha's definition correctly.


But I still don't understand:
One who is developed in mind can resist and endure painful (mostly bodily) feelings, because he has mental ways of escape from it.
One who is developed in body can resist and endure pleasent (mostly mental?) feelings, because he has bodily ways of escape from it?

The first makes sense to me.
The second I just tried to relate it in an analogue way to the first, but I can't really make so much sense of it.


It's possible that one, by developing the body, restrain bodily, having heard the Dhamma, may also adopt the developing of mind. Going together, knowing mind&matter are co-rleated, they may gain development by body and mind.
Should development in body, by developing restraint towards pleasure, always come first, as a necessary basis for development in mind (= resistance to pain and unpleasentness)?


The Brahman in this Sutta suggest that the Sublime Buddha might have an ease to talk because not knowing suffering, suggesting being only developed in mind (of what he actually doesn't know what it means).
Yes, and he also suggest the Sublime Buddha might have an ease to talk because not knowing pleasure, suggesting also lacking development in mind.

And the Buddha explains that he knows both very well, yet nothing from the highest pleasure[1]  to the most painful hardship[2] could invade his mind, because of his development in both body and mind.

Still this question for me remains: I have not yet really understood why resistance to pleasure, without getting infatuated, is called development in body, while resistance to pain, without getting distraught and despaired, is called development in mind.
For me they both seem like different developments in mind, often seeming in mutual support of each other.

So any further explanations, if being able to understand my confusion, would be welcome, maybe helping me to understand.

I have also e-mailed Admin (Dmytro) about it. Maybe he has a more "mathematical" answer to it. ^-^
Maybe {removed name} or {removed name}1 might also have some explanatory thoughts about it. (Not sure if reaching here by mention.)
Or Birk (also not sure to reach, but will try on DhammaWheel).
 1. the meditative states he mastered under his former teachers Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta
 2. the period of self-mortification and extreme austerity that he practiced afterwards, not having found total release in these formless jhanas and looking for the other extreme
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 05:47:18 PM by Moritz »

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2022, 08:22:08 PM »
Developed in body, in this teaching, means to have complete the Sila section, has Sila, based on right view, Nyom. Because abound body, form (5 senses and abjects) as refuge already, those feelings, getting pleased, are known as no refuge not real, and so they can not invade the mind (past, present, future).
Developed in mind, one isn't touched by any pain and decay (in regard of form, body, group), as, like Nyom already suggested, having developed mind, 4 Jhana, as one's place of joy, even Sunnata. Developed in body, one does not head back.

The reason why one doesn't like to get on the path is because still invaded by pleasures known. (not surrender, still wishing to hold control, no Saddha, no Sila) Enduring hardships, pain, one might be able for long (look at former Bhante Paññobhāsa ), but since still wrong view, nothing gained at all.

Over all it's not good to see both as independend, separated, since co-arising.

Or maybe that sample helps: one seeing the Dhamma has no bond by luring pleasures, no problem to abound them and leave home, meeting hardship pain sickness then, he is as well not caught by it.

The following teaching after that, by the Sublime Buddhas going forth (letting go of any worldly refuge first) till then in the sphere of developed mind, reflects this on a longer scale.

The whole key, the whole mathematics of the path, lies simply in right view, Nyom Moritz , seeing the real danger (being pleased within the 6 senses, world: leading in always to pain) and the escape.

There where Satipatthana (bodily development) is complete (Adhisila complete, sense restrain, not taking on what ever given, touched, not rejoicing on it, making it to own, controluable), pains do not burden, nothing formed further around, into, from this. That pattern then reaches also the highest kinds of joy.

Many, former and now, do their meditation in the sphere of a-rupa saññas, may gain certain long joy, but as this is conditioned and not gained real mind-release (on the base of right view, virtue complet, leaving home/stand) but just mind-release. Merits gone, falling back downwardly.

It's possible that one having completed kaya-bhavana (based on right view), training in the sphere of the senses, is able to go on further to mind-development. Else wouldn't work out toward secure.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 09:11:25 PM by Johann »
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Offline Moritz

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2022, 02:51:47 AM »
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Thanks, Bhante, for the further explanations. I will think more about this.

Meanwhile Upasaka Dmytro replied to my e-mail:
Quote from: Dmytro
The earliest explanation I know is given in the Commentary, and translated by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi in his footnote:
 
384. MA explains that “development of body” here is insight, and “development of mind” concentration. When the noble disciple experiences pleasant feeling, he does not become overwhelmed by it because, through his development of insight, he understands the feeling to be impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not self; and when he experiences painful feeling, he does not become overwhelmed by it because, through his development of concentration, he is able to escape from it by entering into one of the meditative absorptions.
 
However, in other parts of the Commentary the “development of body” is explained very differently.
So the original intended meaning might have been lost. Still, the commentarial explanation makes good sense in meditative practice.

Kind regards,
                            Dmytro

So the Majjhima Atthakatha declares
"development of body" = "vipassana"
"development of mind" = "samatha"

But other parts of the commentary explain "development of body" differently.
I asked him further if he can point out some of these other explanations of "development of body".

Maybe wasting a lot of people's time with my questions that they would spend otherwise developing body and mind, without needing such specific answers as I ask for.

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: Developed in body and mind, or body only? Mind only?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2022, 06:28:19 AM »
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Thanks, Bhante, for the further explanations. I will think more about this.

Meanwhile Upasaka Dmytro replied to my e-mail:
Quote from: Dmytro
The earliest explanation I know is given in the Commentary, and translated by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi in his footnote:
 
384. MA explains that “development of body” here is insight, and “development of mind” concentration. When the noble disciple experiences pleasant feeling, he does not become overwhelmed by it because, through his development of insight, he understands the feeling to be impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not self; and when he experiences painful feeling, he does not become overwhelmed by it because, through his development of concentration, he is able to escape from it by entering into one of the meditative absorptions.
 
However, in other parts of the Commentary the “development of body” is explained very differently.
So the original intended meaning might have been lost. Still, the commentarial explanation makes good sense in meditative practice.

Kind regards,
                            Dmytro

So the Majjhima Atthakatha declares
"development of body" = "vipassana"
"development of mind" = "samatha"

But other parts of the commentary explain "development of body" differently.
I asked him further if he can point out some of these other explanations of "development of body".

Maybe wasting a lot of people's time with my questions that they would spend otherwise developing body and mind, without needing such specific answers as I ask for.

Not at all, and fit's actually to the told, Nyom. Given that Satipatthana is often understood as "vipassana". Once world has been left, body has gone developed. Space for further developing of mind. (Jhana, a-rupa sanna).

Householder-meditation practice, as that of sects, usually lack of proper development of body, withdraw from world (through vipassana), but by just ignoring go on a-rupa spheres and there, lacking of object of investigation, can not develop both.

It might seems different when sometimes told "development of body" is perfection in Virtue, sense-restrain or complete till Sati (vipassana), or even "having Saddha" (surrender in regard of the world). The pattern, although using many kinds of differend words and destinations, of the lokuttara paṭiccasamuppāda (4. Noble truth, 10 fold path) is always the same.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 06:34:50 AM by Johann »
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