Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

[Johann]

I have read on this forum (DW) that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

No, not at all. The fifth precept encouragesgis abstaining from means which causing heedlessness, better lose of fear and let one easier perform kammic bad deeds (e.g. the 4 precepts) as well as acting without restrain.

Even if still after certain sensual-satisfaction: If all people in the world would be just addicted to this, less wars, harming, destruction and all other painful things would be present out of desire after sensuality. Not even plant-life would be needed to destroy for such.
It's even allowed for Bhikkhus incl. a lot of allowances tools and storage equipment, yet of course not for simple sensual enjoyment.

In relation of such as e-ciggarettes, in regard of precept on it's own, propably not (not really knowing them, of what it is), but thought of how they are produced, etc... they might cause a lot of harm for others.

Protrest out of common thoughts and daily wellness argumentation:

Intoxicants are not allowed--period: hard to believe this can be debated. Nicotine affects the mind's chemical transmissions, is highly addictive and is, therefore, an intoxicant. The traversing of the path (magga) for objective reality through purification (pariyodapana) of ones own mind (sacitta), via ones own mind, is difficult enough! Why introduce chemical variables which promote conditioning, false states of awareness, and jam the brain's synapses?

If you are going to do this, why come here to defend it?

In deed, hard to see ones intentions, hard to overcome certain views and aversion...

One who acts simply to justify ones short comings, spocken of sacca, is really a bad fool. Now not able to leave the mass of house behind to probably be able to get on the path, indoxicated by youth, health and life, isn't it not that hypocratical clincing to rites and virtues not conductive on the path, are what hinders?

Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds and this matches the topic, this is a matter relevant for lasting benefit. Of what those clincing to house may see as days trendy means to run after, thats not grasped by it, for this is at most a defending of addiction to the three intoxications youth, health and life: marked, feel-good-selling and wellness-politic. So just mentioned for those seeking something beyond views at least, sticking to conductive for gaining it.

And to get it not wrong, smoking is not a path-factor and may effect ones health unnecessary. So don't start doing it, or praise it improper.

A common argumentation out of improper attention:

Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds

I think this is up for debate. I've been addicted to cigarettes in the past and I can tell you that at the point of trying to quit, but still feeling cravings, I would likely have taken a cigarette that wasn't given to me if someone had left a pack behind or something. I also became extremely quick to anger whilst craving cigarettes, if I was of a different temperament I may have acted on this too...

Whilst you are actually smoking tobacco, I agree that there is not much of an effect, although if a non-smoker had a cigarette right now they would have a head rush that would almost certainly feel like quite a big effect. The addictive nature of tobacco, however could easily cause one to slip into evil deeds.

If this way of thinking is valid in relation of Silas, then loving your wife and you children, association with them, would be a breach of the basic precepts as well. Chocolate, favor for tee in the morning, favor to sit in this or that way... No to speak of having a favor to think about yourself...

It may happen, that one deprived of his honey (tobacco) may to unwise things, yes. Stealing, lying, even killing could possible happen.
But in this case, if such is the base of argument, there are countless other sensual desires, like beloved, who are much more and frequently cause of conflicts. That's running out to the common opinion-battle and daily changing views.

Beings are strong addicted to the objects of the sense, cetain food and food (entertainment) is required to overcome addition to food.

So that is not a good way of thinking at the beginning. Althought food for lifting oneself over others, yet still addicted to everyting, caught in home/house. Yet, of cause, all kinds of sensual desire lead to suffering and it's because of sensual desire that people take knives, lead wars...

On a higher level, if we take the factor of precepts on a high meditative level, what ever enjoying and grasping of sign, sound, taste... all of this is a thief, taking of what is not yours.

Step by step means that one let go of desire after sensual pleasure which causes harm. And as told before, it the worlds beings would be just addicted to tobacco strongly and nothing else, there would be less suffering caused, much lesser.

So all this biased and opinion-forcing arguments are really no match at all.

Most beloved are those driving cars, wishing and addicted to so many things causing so much burning and sick all around, arguing for "smoking effects the health of others..." One could possible smoke 20 pack a day and would not nearly harm as much as an confused activist driving his care, turning on his AC... what ever.

No match and arguments on the level of basic Silas and harm.

May it be of use to do not lose the track, proper attention and help to find the path beyond any desire for what ever refined, harmless and as real taken food.

Usually people giving up one not so good habit will take on a bunch of others for entertaining the mind with sensuality. So the proper way is to simply try honestly keeping basic precepts and get not drunken, indoxicated, losing track by losing right view "there is given, sacrifice".

If smoking tobacco is ones last addition, having heard the good Dhamma, fond firm faith, understanding or having even seen by him/herself, he/she will be sure to end up minimum as Once-returner in this very life, since he will face the first Noble truth in relation of sensuality certainly. No need to fear the sublime destination of a tobacco using person with right view.

Foolish and in most cases corrupted informed who has the thought that a Noble person is not to be found under those using tobacco, yet it might be of cause that a not outsider dwells heedless as well.

To understand this matter, even there would be some using tobacco for certain enjoyment, it's good to read Nandiya Sutta: To Nandiya .

[No Name]

 

[Johann]

It's btw. a common know "dispel-mosquito-medicine" (how people often call it, the help ease biases or to provoke if to much on it) of monks and most effective to ward off the large mosquito: Ahara-hant, Goenka and other "Vipassana"-types, Scholar, Modern, Western, Social-liberal, Wellness, Scientist, Wikis, Drivers, house-yogis... and many other sub-species. You would't like to have less to no "truthseeker" around, would you? And common folk, brainwashed by suggestions to avoiding the consume-and-business-killer no. 1, might also fade.

Nothing protects a forest dweller or one after right resolve better and effective against burdensome sucker without breaking rules, even without kammic bad effects, if skilled. Also inwardly (bias and foolish burdensome thoughts).

People much attached to sensuality hate nothing more then bad smell if not producing it presently, like vehicle rider smog (which is by the way just deathly and product of deadly use, smell of road kills and wars).

It, to have a medicine at times, is a very useful method to find out whether anothers virtue is just based on rites and rituals (here even of that of common sociaty) or based on path, Noble.

The only danger is that it might attract pleasure-medicine-smoker of all kinds, especially if starting to store or keep more then a days amount.

Ohh... the excuses are endless... either that of the eternalists or nihilists... Yet it's like as if one might be firm bond to sugar, with the different that leave and root medicine can be lifetime stored, not just a week, or just a day.

It's a way of re-lease, inhalation, that gained even allowance of a pipe for every day in the week, a bag to keep them well...

It's somehow ironically that Marx was a heavy drinker and smoker... and first anti-smoke campaigns run by German-Nazis... but times, biases and kinds of pleasures of the mass changes.

[Jieshi Shan]

I have never had any major addictions, even though I tried some drugs in my youth. They just don't stick with me. But I understand that smoking can be hard to quit, it is a big challenge and overcoming this is a great little victory for Jivindra, the natural energy in balance over this unnecessary waste of health and money (cigarettes are quite expensive here).
I think it is a good precept to always keep in mind that there will be drugs, alcohol and other things that will attach themselves to us and take a part of the control... if we let them do it.

[Johann]

It's as hard or not hard as all other sense objects, good Jieshi Shan . Yet no match in regard of harm to all other heavy addictions or supports for 'rel-ease' in the sphere of sensuality.

Who's able to abstain from using vehicles? Really foolish if those tell "smoking kills" and cheat people. No measure to what ever "harmless". Even sugar would be no match compared to the medicine require a leave.
And it's surely not only one of the cheapest medicine but also one with most less harm for everyone. People are just total stupid and blind to causes and effects, only know shops.