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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Apr 18 11:02:00
blazer:  _/\_

2024 Apr 13 06:28:47
Dhammañāṇa: May all travel careful and safe and meet their relatives always in good fortune.

2024 Apr 08 22:43:14
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 08 10:24:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 08 06:05:52
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New moon Uposatha by follow the Brahmacariya.

2024 Apr 06 19:05:27
Dhammañāṇa: * It's not so that one did not received much goodness either.

2024 Apr 06 19:04:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's not so that one received much goodness either.

2024 Apr 06 17:34:34
Dhammañāṇa: Avoid and be grateful anyway, as it's not so that their wasn't a try at least.

2024 Apr 06 17:33:09
Dhammañāṇa: And after others did their things, they get angry... No way to help, just good to avoid.

2024 Apr 06 14:15:01
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 06 10:45:53
Dhammañāṇa: But usually people just seek excuses or let others do the work.

2024 Apr 06 10:44:20
Dhammañāṇa: If people would be clear about dukkha in all, they wouldn't be lazy and let others do, wouldn't consume instead of sacrifice.

2024 Apr 05 22:15:22
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 05 18:51:35
Dhammañāṇa: Sensual craving, control-will, laziness, restlessness, and doubt. Nothing else hinders one from doing sacrifices, for here and for beyond.

2024 Apr 05 18:50:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🤦‍♀️

2024 Apr 05 18:49:10
អរិយវង្ស: ចិន្តីសូត្រ ទី៣ [] https://sangham.net/km/tipitaka/sut/an/03/sut.an.03.003

2024 Apr 05 18:47:40
Dhammañāṇa: Sensual craving, control-will, laziness, restlessness, and doubt. Nothing else hinders one from doing sacrifices, for here and for beyond.

2024 Apr 05 17:04:46
Dhammañāṇa: Yet nobody can take away good deeds done. So why don't just do it.

2024 Apr 05 12:31:40
Dhammañāṇa: When doubt or incapable to control or making one's own, than one does not go for it, often even wishing it destroyed.

2024 Apr 05 12:25:05
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 17:32:20
អរិយវង្ស: កូណា _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 14:56:02
Dhammañāṇa: Now fine?

2024 Apr 04 14:02:47
អរិយវង្ស: Media Files Media FilesUploadSearch Files in user:cheav_villa:privat  Sorry, you don't have enough rights to read files.

2024 Apr 04 13:58:43
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 12:26:48
Dhammañāṇa: Atma moved them (13) to Nyoms private folder.

2024 Apr 04 09:47:09
អរិយវង្ស: កូណាច្រឡំ អាប់ឡូត រូបក្មុង Album លោកតា :o ជជែកគ្នារឿងឆេងម៉េង នៅកន្លែងការងារ បណ្តើរចុចៗ ចូលទៅឡូតចឹងទៅ😌

2024 Apr 04 04:54:49
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a grateful ancestor reminder day, reflecting beings of goodness (in the past) all around.

2024 Apr 04 00:50:34
Dhammañāṇa: :)

2024 Apr 03 22:17:46
អរិយវង្ស: លោកតាលែងបបូល កូណាធ្វើជណ្តើរ?

2024 Apr 03 22:17:18
អរិយវង្ស:  :)

2024 Apr 03 20:27:48
Dhammañāṇa: May the rain have been sufficient enough so that nobody would harm being of goodness, now resisting in other spheres, on tomorrow reminder day at least.

2024 Apr 02 13:03:04
blazer:  Bhante Dhammañāṇa _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 02 07:00:28
Dhammañāṇa: Short after hype in "industrial revolutions" always comes the dark Red.

2024 Apr 01 09:23:59
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 01 06:07:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Sila day by observing virtue and reflecting on goodness.

2024 Mar 29 21:32:04
Dhammañāṇa: 500 visitors  Amazon after AI food.

2024 Mar 24 19:07:11
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ 😌

2024 Mar 24 14:13:29
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 24 06:25:25
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha by following the conducts of the Arahats.

2024 Mar 23 13:11:16
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 21 01:07:56
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 21 00:28:58
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 14:25:49
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 12:06:29
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 20 11:24:06
blazer: Good morning everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

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Author Topic: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?  (Read 2237 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

  • Bhikkhu
  • Very Engaged Member
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  • Sadhu! or +418/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • (Samana Johann)
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110

I have read on this forum (DW) that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

Quote from: Johann
No, not at all. The fifth precept encouragesgis abstaining from means which causing heedlessness, better lose of fear and let one easier perform kammic bad deeds (e.g. the 4 precepts) as well as acting without restrain.

Even if still after certain sensual-satisfaction: If all people in the world would be just addicted to this, less wars, harming, destruction and all other painful things would be present out of desire after sensuality. Not even plant-life would be needed to destroy for such.
It's even allowed for Bhikkhus incl. a lot of allowances tools and storage equipment, yet of course not for simple sensual enjoyment.

In relation of such as e-ciggarettes, in regard of precept on it's own, propably not (not really knowing them, of what it is), but thought of how they are produced, etc... they might cause a lot of harm for others.

Protrest out of common thoughts and daily wellness argumentation:

Quote from: Padipa
Intoxicants are not allowed--period: hard to believe this can be debated. Nicotine affects the mind's chemical transmissions, is highly addictive and is, therefore, an intoxicant. The traversing of the path (magga) for objective reality through purification (pariyodapana) of ones own mind (sacitta), via ones own mind, is difficult enough! Why introduce chemical variables which promote conditioning, false states of awareness, and jam the brain's synapses?

If you are going to do this, why come here to defend it?

Quote from: Johann
In deed, hard to see ones intentions, hard to overcome certain views and aversion...

One who acts simply to justify ones short comings, spocken of sacca, is really a bad fool. Now not able to leave the mass of house behind to probably be able to get on the path, indoxicated by youth, health and life, isn't it not that hypocratical clincing to rites and virtues not conductive on the path, are what hinders?

Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds and this matches the topic, this is a matter relevant for lasting benefit. Of what those clincing to house may see as days trendy means to run after, thats not grasped by it, for this is at most a defending of addiction to the three intoxications youth, health and life: marked, feel-good-selling and wellness-politic. So just mentioned for those seeking something beyond views at least, sticking to conductive for gaining it.

And to get it not wrong, smoking is not a path-factor and may effect ones health unnecessary. So don't start doing it, or praise it improper.

A common argumentation out of improper attention:

Quote from: Nyom Laurence
Quote from: Johann
Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds
I think this is up for debate. I've been addicted to cigarettes in the past and I can tell you that at the point of trying to quit, but still feeling cravings, I would likely have taken a cigarette that wasn't given to me if someone had left a pack behind or something. I also became extremely quick to anger whilst craving cigarettes, if I was of a different temperament I may have acted on this too...

Whilst you are actually smoking tobacco, I agree that there is not much of an effect, although if a non-smoker had a cigarette right now they would have a head rush that would almost certainly feel like quite a big effect. The addictive nature of tobacco, however could easily cause one to slip into evil deeds.

If this way of thinking is valid in relation of Silas, then loving your wife and you children, association with them, would be a breach of the basic precepts as well. Chocolate, favor for tee in the morning, favor to sit in this or that way... No to speak of having a favor to think about yourself...

It may happen, that one deprived of his honey (tobacco) may to unwise things, yes. Stealing, lying, even killing could possible happen.
But in this case, if such is the base of argument, there are countless other sensual desires, like beloved, who are much more and frequently cause of conflicts. That's running out to the common opinion-battle and daily changing views.

Beings are strong addicted to the objects of the sense, cetain food and food (entertainment) is required to overcome addition to food.

So that is not a good way of thinking at the beginning. Althought food for lifting oneself over others, yet still addicted to everyting, caught in home/house. Yet, of cause, all kinds of sensual desire lead to suffering and it's because of sensual desire that people take knives, lead wars...

On a higher level, if we take the factor of precepts on a high meditative level, what ever enjoying and grasping of sign, sound, taste... all of this is a thief, taking of what is not yours.

Step by step means that one let go of desire after sensual pleasure which causes harm. And as told before, it the worlds beings would be just addicted to tobacco strongly and nothing else, there would be less suffering caused, much lesser.

So all this biased and opinion-forcing arguments are really no match at all.

Most beloved are those driving cars, wishing and addicted to so many things causing so much burning and sick all around, arguing for "smoking effects the health of others..." One could possible smoke 20 pack a day and would not nearly harm as much as an confused activist driving his care, turning on his AC... what ever.

No match and arguments on the level of basic Silas and harm.

May it be of use to do not lose the track, proper attention and help to find the path beyond any desire for what ever refined, harmless and as real taken food.

Usually people giving up one not so good habit will take on a bunch of others for entertaining the mind with sensuality. So the proper way is to simply try honestly keeping basic precepts and get not drunken, indoxicated, losing track by losing right view "there is given, sacrifice".

If smoking tobacco is ones last addition, having heard the good Dhamma, fond firm faith, understanding or having even seen by him/herself, he/she will be sure to end up minimum as Once-returner in this very life, since he will face the first Noble truth in relation of sensuality certainly. No need to fear the sublime destination of a tobacco using person with right view.

Foolish and in most cases corrupted informed who has the thought that a Noble person is not to be found under those using tobacco, yet it might be of cause that a not outsider dwells heedless as well.

To understand this matter, even there would be some using tobacco for certain enjoyment, it's good to read Nandiya Sutta: To Nandiya .
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Offline អរិយវង្ស

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2018, 09:40:13 PM »
  _/\_


Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2023, 01:46:59 AM »
It's btw. a common know "dispel-mosquito-medicine" (how people often call it, the help ease biases or to provoke if to much on it) of monks and most effective to ward off the large mosquito: Ahara-hant, Goenka and other "Vipassana"-types, Scholar, Modern, Western, Social-liberal, Wellness, Scientist, Wikis, Drivers, house-yogis... and many other sub-species. You would't like to have less to no "truthseeker" around, would you? And common folk, brainwashed by suggestions to avoiding the consume-and-business-killer no. 1, might also fade.

Nothing protects a forest dweller or one after right resolve better and effective against burdensome sucker without breaking rules, even without kammic bad effects, if skilled. Also inwardly (bias and foolish burdensome thoughts).

People much attached to sensuality hate nothing more then bad smell if not producing it presently, like vehicle rider smog (which is by the way just deathly and product of deadly use, smell of road kills and wars).

It, to have a medicine at times, is a very useful method to find out whether anothers virtue is just based on rites and rituals (here even of that of common sociaty) or based on path, Noble.

The only danger is that it might attract pleasure-medicine-smoker of all kinds, especially if starting to store or keep more then a days amount.

Ohh... the excuses are endless... either that of the eternalists or nihilists... Yet it's like as if one might be firm bond to sugar, with the different that leave and root medicine can be lifetime stored, not just a week, or just a day.

It's a way of re-lease, inhalation, that gained even allowance of a pipe for every day in the week, a bag to keep them well...

It's somehow ironically that Marx was a heavy drinker and smoker... and first anti-smoke campaigns run by German-Nazis... but times, biases and kinds of pleasures of the mass changes.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 01:57:55 AM by Johann »
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Offline Jieshi Shan

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2023, 08:32:25 PM »
I have never had any major addictions, even though I tried some drugs in my youth. They just don't stick with me. But I understand that smoking can be hard to quit, it is a big challenge and overcoming this is a great little victory for Jivindra, the natural energy in balance over this unnecessary waste of health and money (cigarettes are quite expensive here).
I think it is a good precept to always keep in mind that there will be drugs, alcohol and other things that will attach themselves to us and take a part of the control... if we let them do it.

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2023, 03:35:09 AM »
It's as hard or not hard as all other sense objects, good Jieshi Shan . Yet no match in regard of harm to all other heavy addictions or supports for 'rel-ease' in the sphere of sensuality.

Who's able to abstain from using vehicles? Really foolish if those tell "smoking kills" and cheat people. No measure to what ever "harmless". Even sugar would be no match compared to the medicine require a leave.
And it's surely not only one of the cheapest medicine but also one with most less harm for everyone. People are just total stupid and blind to causes and effects, only know shops.
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