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Topic Summary

Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: March 05, 2023, 04:20:33 PM »

Gratitude, Nyom, is the path toward release, from any and even all relations. Once Nyom can take just this, Nyom got/took so much indebted, that he wouldn't return.

One demanding stays bond.
Posted by: blazer
« on: March 05, 2023, 03:53:46 PM »

May i have an answer to the question i have asked many times?
Also, is there a specific reason you're not answering my question at first place?
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: blazer
« on: March 05, 2023, 03:51:15 PM »

Ven Johann,
as for now, i had the chance to reflect on the relationship and find some of my errors. I also reconsidered the role of parents and their burden. For so, there is a big debt.
Anyway the debt can be extinguished. For example, when a parent harrasses for half life, deprives of heritage, abuses, because of arrogance and stupidity, a big debt can eventually be extinguished, or there can even be a credit.
I gave help, but i'm still convinced i have no debt left, and more, i could even be in credit, expecially by having not taken strong countermeasures to defend myself properly. Actually i consider this could be the case, i have (had) a parent with a debt toward my person.

Why this question?
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Again, no, Nyom blazer .

There is no such as an ideal, similar of what people agree "this is poor and serves help"

The goodness remains given goodness, what one has taken, received. This is why one is capable to develop the Brahma Viharas toward all being, since hardly a being can be found that was not one father, mother. And it has to begin with the first Gods.

It's also not so that there is such as a universal account that one has to bring to zero, for such is impossible.

By ending of craving, stopping of taking on everything, debtlessness is reached, eg. Arahat ship.

If thinking in ways like " I have given back enough", one does not only open up all ways of denying goodness, but develops also hardly Samvega, goes on to incease indebting, taking on anew.

And again, even the conventional debts toward parents, as the Buddha stated, could not be returned by giving all wealth, all services, but just by assisting them toward non-greed, Sila ...

Practice, again, does not seek to balance wander on, but to develop all goodness supportive to be able to leave. The focus is on goodness. At least, what isn't taken from others, of which Nyom could return? How could he give back the assistance he received as he was total helpless, just seeked to take on things, gain birth. Nobody else did give at that point aside of the own parents.

One who eventually sees the whole worlds caught in debt, Samvega, develops care about every being. But such isn't possible if not strong seeing the duty of taking care about one's Gods at first place, still carry notions of wrong view "I have/had a right".

I understand that a universal account cannot be brought to zero, as it is impossible, and actually a waste of time and effort. I've not told "i've given back enough", i stopped giving help because it was not possible to give further help. I can say, despite my young age and my relative ignorance, i tried many times to teach good behavior, non greed toward money also. Differently i would not have raised this point. Having read the sutta i knew the ways one can repay parents.
I think i currently not have particular problems related to parents.

Quoting this
"The goodness remains given goodness, what one has taken, received."
So what about the evil? It looks it doesn't generate any debt toward the victim? Is it right?


 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: March 04, 2023, 06:35:42 AM »

Ven Johann,
as for now, i had the chance to reflect on the relationship and find some of my errors. I also reconsidered the role of parents and their burden. For so, there is a big debt.
Anyway the debt can be extinguished. For example, when a parent harrasses for half life, deprives of heritage, abuses, because of arrogance and stupidity, a big debt can eventually be extinguished, or there can even be a credit.
I gave help, but i'm still convinced i have no debt left, and more, i could even be in credit, expecially by having not taken strong countermeasures to defend myself properly. Actually i consider this could be the case, i have (had) a parent with a debt toward my person.

Why this question?
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Again, no, Nyom blazer .

There is no such as an ideal, similar of what people agree "this is poor and serves help"

The goodness remains given goodness, what one has taken, received. This is why one is capable to develop the Brahma Viharas toward all being, since hardly a being can be found that was not one father, mother. And it has to begin with the first Gods.

It's also not so that there is such as a universal account that one has to bring to zero, for such is impossible.

By ending of craving, stopping of taking on everything, debtlessness is reached, eg. Arahat ship.

If thinking in ways like " I have given back enough", one does not only open up all ways of denying goodness, but develops also hardly Samvega, goes on to incease indebting, taking on anew.

And again, even the conventional debts toward parents, as the Buddha stated, could not be returned by giving all wealth, all services, but just by assisting them toward non-greed, Sila ...

Practice, again, does not seek to balance wander on, but to develop all goodness supportive to be able to leave. The focus is on goodness. At least, what isn't taken from others, of which Nyom could return? How could he give back the assistance he received as he was total helpless, just seeked to take on things, gain birth. Nobody else did give at that point aside of the own parents.

One who eventually sees the whole worlds caught in debt, Samvega, develops care about every being. But such isn't possible if not strong seeing the duty of taking care about one's Gods at first place, still carry notions of wrong view "I have/had a right".
Posted by: blazer
« on: March 03, 2023, 10:49:48 PM »

Ven Johann,
as for now, i had the chance to reflect on the relationship and find some of my errors. I also reconsidered the role of parents and their burden. For so, there is a big debt.
Anyway the debt can be extinguished. For example, when a parent harrasses for half life, deprives of heritage, abuses, because of arrogance and stupidity, a big debt can eventually be extinguished, or there can even be a credit.
I gave help, but i'm still convinced i have no debt left, and more, i could even be in credit, expecially by having not taken strong countermeasures to defend myself properly. Actually i consider this could be the case, i have (had) a parent with a debt toward my person.

Why this question?
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: March 03, 2023, 09:53:51 PM »

I want to thank Bhante and Upasaka Blazer for sharing this discussion which has been helpful to me to get into the right mindest on the way to visiting my parents, helpong my father, which went without any conflicts this time.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Master Moritz,
i'm very happy it helped you!
Mudita  _/\_

Ven Johann,
possibly i'm missing something, but it is very important for me to understand so i have to ask further: how can a chat help in some cases?
After reflection i tought it is possible to repay a debt with parents, and looking for info i've found that the extinction is possible. But i feel it is not good to work with incomplete informations, or better, with informations which miss important points.
So it looks to me it was an error or it was for a purpose, i cannot find other reasons, also because i'm "expecting" perfection in answers or something similar.
May Ven Johann please clarify.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Using delta-chat (via email) allows voice, Nyom. That's maybe better. (just install app, use enail account and write to samana.johann@sangham.net or create a group, maybe adding Nyom Moritz. as well, as groups are always better then just two.)

Ven. Johann,
thanks for your answer. Of course it can be of some help (ven if i prefer to have your words written for better understanding, multiple reading), but still i don't understand why that information was missing. It looks to me it was not a problem of chat/voice availability, the info was just missing.
Please help me to understand.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Could Nyom repeat of what he now understands in regard of "giving care", better duties toward parents? (btw. talk is better for cross-intensivation and fill graps, but lets try, step by step)
Posted by: blazer
« on: March 03, 2023, 09:35:55 PM »

I want to thank Bhante and Upasaka Blazer for sharing this discussion which has been helpful to me to get into the right mindest on the way to visiting my parents, helpong my father, which went without any conflicts this time.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Master Moritz,
i'm very happy it helped you!
Mudita  _/\_

Ven Johann,
possibly i'm missing something, but it is very important for me to understand so i have to ask further: how can a chat help in some cases?
After reflection i tought it is possible to repay a debt with parents, and looking for info i've found that the extinction is possible. But i feel it is not good to work with incomplete informations, or better, with informations which miss important points.
So it looks to me it was an error or it was for a purpose, i cannot find other reasons, also because i'm "expecting" perfection in answers or something similar.
May Ven Johann please clarify.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Using delta-chat (via email) allows voice, Nyom. That's maybe better. (just install app, use enail account and write to samana.johann@sangham.net or create a group, maybe adding Nyom Moritz. as well, as groups are always better then just two.)

Ven. Johann,
thanks for your answer. Of course it can be of some help (ven if i prefer to have your words written for better understanding, multiple reading), but still i don't understand why that information was missing. It looks to me it was not a problem of chat/voice availability, the info was just missing.
Please help me to understand.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: March 03, 2023, 08:49:20 PM »

I want to thank Bhante and Upasaka Blazer for sharing this discussion which has been helpful to me to get into the right mindest on the way to visiting my parents, helpong my father, which went without any conflicts this time.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Master Moritz,
i'm very happy it helped you!
Mudita  _/\_

Ven Johann,
possibly i'm missing something, but it is very important for me to understand so i have to ask further: how can a chat help in some cases?
After reflection i tought it is possible to repay a debt with parents, and looking for info i've found that the extinction is possible. But i feel it is not good to work with incomplete informations, or better, with informations which miss important points.
So it looks to me it was an error or it was for a purpose, i cannot find other reasons, also because i'm "expecting" perfection in answers or something similar.
May Ven Johann please clarify.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Using delta-chat (via email) allows voice, Nyom. That's maybe better. (just install app, use enail account and write to samana.johann@sangham.net or create a group, maybe adding Nyom Moritz. as well, as groups are always better then just two.)
Posted by: blazer
« on: March 03, 2023, 08:12:16 PM »

I want to thank Bhante and Upasaka Blazer for sharing this discussion which has been helpful to me to get into the right mindest on the way to visiting my parents, helpong my father, which went without any conflicts this time.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Master Moritz,
i'm very happy it helped you!
Mudita  _/\_

Ven Johann,
possibly i'm missing something, but it is very important for me to understand so i have to ask further: how can a chat help in some cases?
After reflection i tought it is possible to repay a debt with parents, and looking for info i've found that the extinction is possible. But i feel it is not good to work with incomplete informations, or better, with informations which miss important points.
So it looks to me it was an error or it was for a purpose, i cannot find other reasons, also because i'm "expecting" perfection in answers or something similar.
May Ven Johann please clarify.
Thank you

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_


 
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 24, 2023, 08:21:06 PM »

mudita
Posted by: Moritz
« on: February 24, 2023, 08:16:49 PM »

I want to thank Bhante and Upasaka Blazer for sharing this discussion which has been helpful to me to get into the right mindest on the way to visiting my parents, helpong my father, which went without any conflicts this time.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 20, 2023, 08:04:47 PM »

Maybe Nyom blazer likes to make use of delta-chat, since voice might be sometimes better to avoid misunderstandings or missing points.

Quote
good to know ones releases from all debts once going to the holy life. Could you please give sutta reference?

Going for higher, letting sensual pleasures behind, harmful behind, releases from lower bonds, yes. Yet, 1. not simply by starting the higher task, is one already free from all debts. Again, only and Arahat is free from debts, while one in training still does on debts (if good, just toward the Gems).

2. As debts toward parents are very high, first: the Buddha required to having parents permission to go for higher , second: allowed to care for parents even if gone forth, if required.

Posted by: blazer
« on: February 20, 2023, 03:13:34 PM »


As for relations of goodness, like parents or others who gave one sphere to become, conditions, means, skills... actually everything, one could carry them a whole live on ones shoulders, massage, wash, feed, give them all wealth, one still would not be able to repay it, yet if one turns one's stingy parents to generosity, unvirtuose, to virtue, unwise toward wisdom... such, aside of the common duties, would be a child of real gratitude, did the best to repay their goodness.

That's a great opportunity and good if not missing any change to act grateful as possible.

Ven. Johann,
for the point 1, if so is the answer, may i ask why didn't you at time mention the possibility, actually a useful notion, of extinguishment, which could have already happend or eventually possible?
Thank you

 _/\_
Atma is not sure of what's Nyom asked in detail, but guessing that it's now lesser about the fact of duty, debt, but if it can be repayed. Guessing that it's reasked because not repeating the once told.

Aside of that in the mentioned in the linked Sutta, which is not always possible, going after the holly life, if gotten leave, releases form all debts, is highest gratitude, unbiased toward all. Still, when there is relay, it required to do ones duties.

Only an Arahat is without debts and duties, acts simply liberal.

Ven. Johann,
good to know ones releases from all debts once going to the holy life. Could you please give sutta reference?

Your guessing is correct, even if it's not the main reason.
The question arose because i considered this extinguishment point relevant about the topic on parents debt and giving care, expecially in my situation.
The reason is, my toughts, speech and action are influenced by what i read. I can consider it a missing information, which actually drives my behavior.
For example, i could have tought "based on my life and reasoning, i've already extinguished my debt".

Because it is not the first time i feel in this situation of missing informations, i respectfully ask if in such cases there is a purpose or it is just an "error", seen as incomplete answer or as not having reported something relevant ( which my person considers such ).
Thank you

 _/\_

Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 20, 2023, 05:56:31 AM »


As for relations of goodness, like parents or others who gave one sphere to become, conditions, means, skills... actually everything, one could carry them a whole live on ones shoulders, massage, wash, feed, give them all wealth, one still would not be able to repay it, yet if one turns one's stingy parents to generosity, unvirtuose, to virtue, unwise toward wisdom... such, aside of the common duties, would be a child of real gratitude, did the best to repay their goodness.

That's a great opportunity and good if not missing any change to act grateful as possible.

Ven. Johann,
for the point 1, if so is the answer, may i ask why didn't you at time mention the possibility, actually a useful notion, of extinguishment, which could have already happend or eventually possible?
Thank you

 _/\_
Atma is not sure of what's Nyom asked in detail, but guessing that it's now lesser about the fact of duty, debt, but if it can be repayed. Guessing that it's reasked because not repeating the once told.

Aside of that in the mentioned in the linked Sutta, which is not always possible, going after the holly life, if gotten leave, releases form all debts, is highest gratitude, unbiased toward all. Still, when there is relay, it required to do ones duties.

Only an Arahat is without debts and duties, acts simply liberal.
Posted by: blazer
« on: February 20, 2023, 02:11:08 AM »


As for relations of goodness, like parents or others who gave one sphere to become, conditions, means, skills... actually everything, one could carry them a whole live on ones shoulders, massage, wash, feed, give them all wealth, one still would not be able to repay it, yet if one turns one's stingy parents to generosity, unvirtuose, to virtue, unwise toward wisdom... such, aside of the common duties, would be a child of real gratitude, did the best to repay their goodness.

That's a great opportunity and good if not missing any change to act grateful as possible.

Ven. Johann,
for the point 1, if so is the answer, may i ask why didn't you at time mention the possibility, actually a useful notion, of extinguishment, which could have already happend or eventually possible?
Thank you

 _/\_