Virtual Dhamma-Vinaya Vihara

Open monastery, laity practice area- [Öffentliches Kloster, Laienpraxisbereich] (vata assama) => Workplace for good condition - [Arbeitsplatz für gute Bedingungen] pāramī => Topic started by: Johann on May 25, 2018, 10:47:01 PM

Title: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
Post by: Johann on May 25, 2018, 10:47:01 PM
It's really difficult. Since the global tendency goes so strong after the illusion that there are good gains to be expected by pseudo liberalism, yet the "bad" authorities (giver/taker of sensuality and low identification) are even stronger as before, it seems to be very unlikely that any larger group of those delight in giving and devotion into more sublime might, if even still existing, might continue, and not soon disapear. And that even in devotion of higher realms within the kama loka. At best it may become an ordinaly animal and pets realm here, and becoming a husband be the highest graspable, desired.

We can see a lot of those, who previous went out for higher, return on half path, and serve the lower, we can see some who try to establish an realm of existence and nurishment, like a camp on the half way up to the top, terrible suffering under the bad and disappearing of nurishment and requisites and hardly one can be traced moving forward, even gathered followings into more refined.

It's like watching the drive of a fast running wheel dissolving, slowly stopping, sometimes seeming to turn in the other direction, while facing the clear perception of the impact for many, caused by leaders either giving themselves samples of giving and servic the higher, but even showing by there sample, that it is of benefit to nurish lower first, yet not even fulfill they duties in given relations.

Like if ants would have found a Zuckerberg, a sugar mountain: which of those "blessed" ones would ever try to climb up?

Born in the Zuckerberg-realm, kama-loka, having created ones world such, is really a nasty caught. Do start to hate that, in turns, is natural, but not serve for gaining the unconditioned.

Gati, gati, para gati, parasam gati, Bodhi swaha.

Actually a real good mantra, if remembering the spelling right.

'Becoming (or aspiration, inclination), becoming, higher/transcendent becoming, higher bound/ or proper becoming, Awakening: Done the End "Evam" "

It's "actually" a well known "tibetan" mantra, simple and on it's own very proper.

Maybe Upasaka Lal like to sacrifice gifts of elaborations on gati on this working place for good condition in a Sangha-sub-realm.

Having shortly listened the clip and looked after other in Zucker-mountains realms... torrible! No wonder at all, pseudo liberation in total ignorance of rupa: cut of by destruction of any intelligence in discrimination of upward and downward.

Let's try to give a "push" toward good conditions in ears rupas:
Title: Re: Moder "hierarchy" - obstacle
Post by: Johann on May 26, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
The more modern educated people are, and that counts especially for education in all spheres of originally religions teachings and spheres which have to start with devotion, but also other skills, are strongly lacking of feeling of obligation, gratitude and generosity, would not give up any gained means not for just maintaining their livelihood. If they are good, they sacrifice downward.

That's why every kind of guild or craft died, dies out.

In Khmer language, the/a similar word to gati (which means walking a direction) is used for becoming: gat and in combination with jea, jāti, it's used for coming to birth.

It's good to be clear that for what ever one walks for, and ist not a static matter, goes after, one arrives.

If going after their "kids", their kamma, one, how ever old, becomes a child. Generations given to their childs, devoted formost to their offspring, naturally becomes parent-less.

This global liberal and socialistic system is a systematic destruction of families, destruction and depriving of parents, replacing them with devotion to productivity, low sensual pleasures and most low becoming of a large low class with orientation toward the lower. Generations of orphans driven exclusively by gross craving after sensuality and becoming/being, restrained to act in ways of sublime virtues.

gat is also the word for the east, the direction where the sun takes birth ever morning, the direction devoted since anicent times. Now devotion has turned into West. The word for Western direction is lic, down. People of old have never regarded this direction. And the end of the arising of the Buddha, the start of decay, is symbolic toward east, where the Buddhas face was directed to at his Paranibbana.

Since then the devotion was nevertheless toward east. It's just in this days that devotion is given into west and destruction of any higher becoming, walking toward what is really Brah(ma) has turned it strong devotion toward deluded Brahmas an Mara, death and decay. Taking the unconditioned for conditioned and vici versa. Real for unreal, sugati, well-going, for the wrong to follow.

Now children are told since small, that parents, teacher... have a duty to "be devoted" toward them, need to care.

It's really not likely that the would be those who do not stay in a strong state of wrong view.

Their they stand around, left of parent, stampering with their feeds, angry, "I don't go", while the signs of the parents disappear.

Gati, gati, ...agati, woops

Quote from:
The King of Death

'We' live like a chicken who doesn't know what's going on. In the morning it takes its baby chicks out to scratch for food. In the evening, it goes back to sleep in the coop. The next morning it goes out to look for food again. Its owner scatters rice for it to eat every day, but it doesn't know why its owner is feeding it. The chicken and its owner are thinking in very different ways.

The owner is thinking, "How much does the chicken weigh?" The chicken, though, is engrossed in the food. When the owner picks it up to heft its weight, it thinks the owner is showing affection.

We too don't know what's going on: where we come from, how many more years we'll live, where we'll go, who will take us there. We don't know this at all.

The King of Death is like the owner of the chicken. We don't know when he'll catch up with us, for we're engrossed — engrossed in sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and ideas. We have no sense that we're growing older. We have no sense of enough.

By the way, a notion of begining that introduces to all of this is when teacher and leader use the term 'we' to encourage. Whould any wise go after someone adressing in terms of 'we', setting or seeing him equal his childs and disciples?

Since child, it always seemed to be most either deceitful or low to go after and being attracted by such to my person. It's like being devoted to a slave-nature, hopeless and facing all just as business as usual.

Moreover a sign of better not regard or folloa are those rejecting if wishing to giving respect. Someone knowing his actual stand and position does not trade with false modesty, like a beggar does not refuse to be given alms.
Title: Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
Post by: Johann on May 26, 2018, 10:01:59 AM
Just saw a child lizard, one of those small with a fire red tail. It was a "baby", not even 1.5 cm long but actually total similar as an adult, walking alone and behave total similar.

The the thought arose: "Today people regard children of today much more and quicker developed, regarding them as faster an better. But is it really like that. If we look at animals, offsprings are very fast in being able to released. Human generally need good 20 years or more. It's probably wise to rethink if there is a development going on or simply a decay of measures and standards. As the wise said, the more degenerated humans are, the younger they are released to 'play' adulds, given certain responsibility."

When old people, even in the second time of their life act like children, associate with children and their ways, accept to be treated equal by children, encourave them to do so and are not devoted to renouncing. You may remember pictures of the grandfathers mountain biking, the grand parents appearing like young lovers, the inline skating 90... that is actually the real reason why people think children of today are smarter an more developed. Not because they are, objectively, but because the certain overall circumsatances got to the means of measure and of what is adult and mature, standards got lost.

gati, gati, down wardly walking, where would it "end"?

5cm long adult, just skilled in concentration to gain food, like the offspring, or slower?

When meeting young Cambodian haven grow up in modern world, because of the physical found and nutrition with simple knowledge, they are often very larg and know a lot, but not really helthy at all, especially emotional. People here, even the most wise monks, are mostly small and tiny, but mentally and in ways of conduct no match for them at all. That's the nutrition by living in association with wise and people of right view.

Just on translating The Wisdom of the Ego ( it might give some additional cleansing food for wise thoughts on the topic.

There is very much devotion toward very strange Super-Egos, the drive of "socialism", marxism. Animal-equal sociaties. It's not wrong to be government ( by super-egos, as long as they are of skilfull funktion, like that of admirable-friendhood, Devas and so on.

It's for the most not seek as a careful and compassionate order of the Buddha, to forbid his monks to show any sign of respect toward householde as a formal means and why it is so extremely destructive for many, when a Naga bows down, out of lacking wisdom is best shown in a tiny story called Der "Stolze Käfer im Kuhmist"-Segen - The "Proud beetle in the cowdung"-Blessing (,2010.msg8985.html#msg8985).

The same holds when leaders bow down to their fellows, parents to children an teacher to their students. No matter how "justified" in regard of personal things, it's crashing down whole sociaties.

How compassionate are you, if not working on being worthy of your position and give others perfect object of proper devotion?

Pets don't act out of wisdom and compassion and their masters likewise. It's simply driven by graving for sensuality and desire for being, no matter how low as long as feeded with sensual pleasures in great amount.

So be aware. If bowing and giving into lower, you crash down those regarding you acts and follow them, and you deprive others of possible fields of merits for them, to be able to get out by labor.

And if you take the lable and estimate of inferior, let others belive you had gained the gift of carring a certain good lable, you are simply stealing from your parents, the king and the Gems.

So it should be clear for those not deprived of any sign of what is the impact for one and many if one rejects natural and costume authority and at the same time devotes himselve to serve the lower, giving treasures downward for poor own livelihood and desire for getting honored without really haven done own sacrifices, not having gained anything sublime at all, nor living a holly live even outwardly.
Title: Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
Post by: Johann on May 26, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
Just one of those foolish elephants sample:

Bhikkhu Bodhi encouraging to not sacrify toward Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, but to consider to devote the best fruits for Samsara...

Simply stealing and simply destroying sociaties... another futhur ox, pig or cow... see next zuckerberg-post: for own security for future more human cow killing advocating...

Peoples are bound to their leaders and vici versa, through an element, the Buddha said.
Title: Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
Post by: Johann on November 24, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
Just coming accross the present toward the Gems, my person thought it might give food on the topic's part "degeneration" here:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

1. Soṇasuttaṁ
To Sona

[020.01] Bhikkhus, these five were ancient qualities of Brahmins, now evident among dogs, but not among Brahmins. What five?

Bhikkhus, in the past Brahmins went to Brahmin women only, now they go to Brahmin women and to non-Brahmin women. also. At present dogs go to bitches only and not to any others. Bhikkhus, this is the first ancient quality of the Brahmins, which is evident among dogs now, but not among Brahmins.

Bhikkhus, in the past Brahmins went to Brahmin women when it was the season, now they go to Brahmin women when it is not the season. At present dogs go to bitches when it is their season not out of season. Bhikkhus, this is the second ancient quality of the Brahmins, which is evident among dogs now, but not among Brahmins.

Bhikkhus, in the past Brahmins did not buy or sell Brahmin women with mutual understanding, they came together and lived together. At present dogs do not buy or sell bitches, with mutual understanding they come together and live together. Bhikkhus, this is the third ancient quality of the Brahmins, which is evident among dogs now, but not among Brahmins.

Bhikkhus, in the past Brahmins did not amass wealth, grains, silver or pure gold. At present dogs do not amass wealth, grains, silver or pure gold. Bhikkhus, this is the fourth ancient quality of the Brahmins, which is evident among dogs now, but not among Brahmins.

Bhikkhus, in the past Brahmins went in search of food in the evening to eat in the morning. At present they eat. whatever is given until the stomach is full and go away carrying whatever is left. At present dogs go in search of food in the evening to eat in the morning. Bhikkhus, this is the fifth ancient quality of the Brahmins, which is evident among dogs now, but not among Brahmins.

Bhikkhus, these five were ancient qualities of Brahmins, now evident among dogs, but not among Brahmins.
Quote from: draft later to access here