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Vihara => Open Vihara - [Offenes Vihara] => Topic started by: Johann on November 28, 2019, 09:29:23 AM

Title: Veneration: Paying respect to teachers, monks - western/modern shamelessness
Post by: Johann on November 28, 2019, 09:29:23 AM
Another Venerable, from traditional origin, thought to find more liberality, there where actually idiotic reigns, recognized the significant notion of wrong view presented by "modern/western" marxist approaches, and of course his topic didn't sadly found much approve in the middle of Devadattas main host:

Since a very seldom but praiseworthy approach, here the surface of his insights:

Quote from: Venerable Amatabhani (https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/paying-respect-to-the-teachers-from-past/14423)
I often see people calling most venerable monks from the past by name and it is disrespectful. If they could call living venerables by respectful tittles why not the most venerable monks from the past; using tero (thero) will not be that difficult. However, it may be a regular practice in scholary articles to use only the name. But in a forum like this the tradition can possibly be changed(?). (Here I was to point the community not the forum itself, never wanted to ask about changing the rules and regulations)
I would suggest to read about them to get some saddha over those the most senior bhikkus.

I am going to mention only few bhikkus from the past.
Some people (even monastics) call Sariputta Tero and Moggallana Tero by name. They are called mother and father in the sāsana.

Sāriputta is just like the mother who gives birth.
Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, janetā, evaṃ sāriputto;
while Moggallāna is like the one who raises the child.
seyyathāpi jātassa āpādetā, evaṃ moggallāno.
(Saccavibhaṅga Sutta MN 141).


I saw some people call Mahakassapa Tero by name. He is the moon in this sāsana patipadā.

Kassapa approaches families like the moon:
Kassapo, bhikkhave, candūpamo kulāni upasaṅkamati (Candūpamā Sutta SN 16.3).

Then one of the most famous writers in the buddhist history, Buddhagosha Tero. People call him only by name. This is because of the scholary articles. I think we should reconsider this!

The Buddha adviced Ananda Tero how bhikkus should call eachother in pirinbbana mancaka.

Yathā kho panānanda, etarahi bhikkhū aññamaññaṃ āvusovādena samudācaranti, na kho mamaccayena evaṃ samudācaritabbaṃ. Theratarena, ānanda, bhikkhunā navakataro bhikkhu nāmena vā gottena vā āvusovādena vā samudācaritabbo. Navakatarena bhikkhunā therataro bhikkhu ‘Bhante’ti vā ‘Āyasmā’ti vā samudācaritabbo
(Tathāgatapacchimavācā)

After my passing, mendicants ought not address each other as ‘reverend’, as they do today. A more senior mendicant ought to address a more junior mendicant by name or clan, or by saying ‘reverend’. A more junior mendicant ought to address a more senior mendicant using ‘sir’ or ‘venerable’. (The Buddha’s Last Words DN16)


The question is about paying respect to the teachers from the past.

Related post…

I had some questions from several people lately about titles and how to address monastics properly. Well, there is no hard and fast rule about this but just to give you an overview: Ajahn Thai word meaning “teacher”. In some traditions used for monastics who have at least 10 vassa in seniority. Amma Meaning “mother” and is sometimes used by nuns. Ayya Genderless term meaning “Venerable” and can be used for all monastics, including novices. Bhante Term used for monks and novices, but sometim…

Related Topics:

Why should one not address a venerable as friend? (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8387.msg13874.html#msg13874)

Monks and Nuns on D&D - Sutta Central (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8213.msg13059.html#msg13059)

People, what ever stand, are certain crazy, even if well taught, even if Seniour Bhikkus, when underestimating even a 14 years old Novice in ways of approach, now not to thing on notions to call ones parents by name, and even well known elders of moddern/west give horrible samples, not to speak of the lost crowd even promoting equality and marxist views, idiot-coolness and total not aware of right discrimination within the world.

Blessed those who have ways to escape the bounds to that degeneration tendency, truely blessed, yet raw.
Title: Re: Paying respect to the teachers from past - western/modern shamelessness
Post by: Cheav Villa on November 28, 2019, 09:54:25 AM
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Title: Re: Paying respect to the teachers from past - western/modern shamelessness
Post by: Khemakumara on November 28, 2019, 12:14:37 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Sadhu
Title: Re: Veneration: Paying respect to teachers, monks - western/modern shamelessness
Post by: Johann on February 06, 2020, 10:17:03 AM
Because it is seldom, that compassion of most useful encouragements within groups of modern/western "Buddhists", and because having come across, Atma though to share a generous gift of a fellow lay man, given on other place:

Quote from: Devoted Upasaka on Dhammawheel
... BTW I don't know if this has been hashed out on older forums, but I find it a bit odd that monks are sometimes mentioned here by their Pali name only... i.e. without any title such as "Venerable" or the newer version "Bhante".

I can understand reluctance to appear deferential to a monk who holds controversial views as in the case of Ven. Paññobhāsa  , but even the arguably more traditional Ven. Thanissaro often gets the chop.
Even the Venerable Devadatta gets the honorific when mentioned in the Canon.