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2020 Jun 01 10:53:45
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 31 18:59:38
Cheav Villa: Ligthning and Thunder…

2020 May 31 18:52:13
Cheav Villa: The Rain is falling down in PhnomPenh :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 30 07:05:43
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 30 06:51:35
Johann: Those taking on the Uposatha today: may many follow your encouragement when leading after near and those depending on you.

2020 May 29 20:39:55
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 29 19:56:20
Johann: What ever sacrificed toward the Sublime Gems, toward liberation, such is condition for no more flowing back into the world. Mudita

2020 May 29 08:40:16
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 29 08:34:50
Johann: [continue] ...kāma-guṇa (sensual giving) , death, alive, increasing the cemeteries in the world. This is why just giving toward the virtuous, those with metta, bears fruits beyond the common, as it's not for further kāma-guṇa that they would use it for, but as base for lessons, for purificatio

2020 May 29 08:33:20
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 29 08:27:03
Johann: If one would know or remembering the suffering behind pleasing form, sound, smell, taste, touch, one certain would no more desire after it. But because lof lack of remembering and proper attention, beings go after it, take birth, age, get sick, seperated, die, again and again, keeping the flame of k

2020 May 29 08:15:29
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 29 08:15:19
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 29 07:42:53
Johann: If ones sacrifices, generosity, isn't protected by a good closed tank, less fruits can be expected. And what is the tank made of? Saddha, Pasada, metta, Sila, intention for own and others independency.

2020 May 29 06:36:24
Johann: A blessed Siladay all who are doing it today

2020 May 28 19:24:28
Johann: Sadhu

2020 May 28 18:32:00
Moritz: Upgrade to SMF 2.0.17 has been completed. Everything running smooth for everybody?

2020 May 23 06:43:43
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 22 21:09:34
Johann: May all still continue to spend a blessed New moon Uposatha till break on of a new day (of course good to continue without break). Mudita

2020 May 21 20:16:55
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 21 19:30:50
Johann: Nothing more a blessing as to do not cling to a specific Nikaya, since one can easy take the opportunity of doing theUposatha often two days a new. May all always make the best of given possibilities.

2020 May 20 21:19:41
Johann: Sadhu

2020 May 20 20:44:31
Cheav Villa: May Bhante get well soon.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 20 20:43:13
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 18 14:55:14
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 18 12:17:04
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 17 21:21:28
Johann: Nyom Sophorn

2020 May 17 07:36:11
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 17 07:14:16
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 17 06:01:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 May 16 20:42:01
Johann: Bhante

2020 May 15 20:13:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 15 19:17:25
Johann: A blessed Siladay ending for those who keep(ed) it today.

2020 May 14 09:09:08
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 14 06:17:12
Johann: A bl3ssed Sila-day those observing it today.

2020 May 12 21:00:24
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 12 19:10:56
Johann: May no one ever, even a moment, forget: "Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven, lordship over all worlds:    the fruit of stream-entry    excels them."

2020 May 10 15:27:11
Depabhasadhamma: Thank you Johann

2020 May 10 15:26:00
Johann: "stand", taking, holding a stand makes it possible more understandable and fits better to it.

2020 May 10 15:24:35
Johann: Welcome Depabasadhamma, Atma will open a topic on it.

2020 May 10 15:04:51
Depabhasadhamma: I am in need of assistance. I am writing a paper about the Three Marks of Existence. I understand the three marks, however, I am befuddled by the meaning and use of the word "existence." Is this English word the translation of the Pali word thiti? Does the word "existence" imply life, living, consci

2020 May 09 21:15:38
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 20:48:57
Johann: Apsara in Pali: accharā, translation actually "A Whoo!"

2020 May 09 20:45:38
Johann: "...“Then take joy, Nanda. Take joy! I am your guarantor for getting 500 dove-footed nymphs.”..."

2020 May 09 20:45:17
Johann: "“What do you think, Nanda? Which is lovelier, better looking, more charming: the Sakyan girl, the envy of the countryside, or these 500 dove-footed nymphs?”..."

2020 May 09 20:43:26
Johann: There was a Bhikkhu "who got an email from an ex-co-dweller" and thought he will return to lower life, Nyom: Nanda Sutta

2020 May 09 20:35:41
Johann: It's actually just about the clothes, since his livemode is already a great Samaneras one.

2020 May 09 20:33:48
Cheav Villa: Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ I kana never heard about the Bhuddha promised..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 09 20:33:17
Johann: Till end of Vassa maybe?

2020 May 09 20:25:18
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ Should try an ordination which in 7days.  _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 20:16:21
Johann: Apsara (dove feet Devatas).

2020 May 09 20:13:19
Johann: Temporary ordination is pretty normal, 3 days, a month, a Vassa... and not to forget that the Buddha promised union with the Asparas, which are beyond being compareable to others...

2020 May 09 19:25:54
Moritz: No no, I really prefer to be a householder, even though not having a house at the moment. I am not much inclined towards nekkhamma...  ^-^
... even though already doing some nekkhamma now, but not hoping to do so for the long term....

2020 May 09 19:24:05
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 May 09 19:08:20
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 09 19:00:58
Johann: When not working he is already used to where his beige light clean cloth, morning, noon, evening and already good organized.

2020 May 09 18:52:05
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 09 18:39:04
Johann: Nyom has his working dress and his light formal dress. White he might have possible to much troubles, so better to convince him toward robes.  :)

2020 May 09 17:38:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ Master Moritz should wear white clothes.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2020 May 07 15:18:07
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 07 10:33:24
Johann: Householder clothes are really no more proper for Upasaka Khemadasa.... good to take him fear of the robes

2020 May 07 10:21:10
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 May 07 10:19:33
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 07 06:02:32
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 07 05:46:38
Johann: Sadhu

2020 May 07 03:25:02
Khemakumara: May it be a path-and fruitful vesak Uposatha

2020 May 06 16:07:14
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 06 16:02:35
Johann: A blessed Vesaka Puja all, today and tomorrow, in reflection the goodness and qualities of the Sublime Buddha.

2020 May 04 21:25:10
Johann: followed by another overload by huawei-search engines... fixed

2020 May 04 20:31:45
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 04 20:25:53
Johann: A MS search engine (Bing) had overloaded the server capacity and might had caused the page not to be reached, but a cave-programmer quickly solved the issue, becoming aware of it. Sadhu

2020 May 03 21:13:46
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante Ariyadhammika _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 20:32:57
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 19:15:52
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.

2020 May 03 15:01:43
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 May 03 12:53:08
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 May 03 12:07:17
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 May 03 12:00:57
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 May 03 09:39:36
Johann: ...and the snake hunts the mice...

2020 May 03 09:11:20
Johann: Dwelling like Devas under Devas, peaceful, respectful, careful, harmless

2020 Apr 30 10:05:08
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 29 21:15:43
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 29 21:08:53
Johann: May all spend a meritful end of Sila-day, those who taking on it today, and maybe continue with those doing so tomorrow.

2020 Apr 29 20:09:39
Johann: Nyom Villa

2020 Apr 29 20:07:29
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 26 20:26:31
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa

2020 Apr 26 20:23:57
Cheav Villa: and Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Apr 26 20:23:33
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 26 19:56:30
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Apr 26 19:56:25
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 26 08:18:19
Cheav Villa: _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 26 07:18:02
Johann: Ādīnava , អដីនវ, As one of ten perceptions: AN 10.60

2020 Apr 26 07:09:32
Johann: May Dukkha be visible for all, so to stay on the path  that leads beyond and liberation.

2020 Apr 25 16:57:34
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Apr 25 15:54:00
Khemakumara: Upāsikā

2020 Apr 23 18:41:59
Johann: Sadhu for care to report and assist

2020 Apr 23 18:39:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_ I kana now not get notification.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Apr 23 15:04:07
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

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Author Topic: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma  (Read 227 times)

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Offline Danilo

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Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« on: March 21, 2020, 06:02:11 AM »
Bhante Johann, I saw that what was presented in the topic "Giving shelter, shadow, by own effort" is quite similar to the case of the monastic whom consented to clear the field to build huts, which I mentioned in "Homeless life under the Triple Jewels" . Isn't the action of get rid of the grass, akusala? Why Bhante, apparently, didn't see any problem in it?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 11:54:43 PM by Danilo »

Online Johann

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 02:26:51 AM »
Maybe Nyom understood some wrong or Atmas bad english may have cause to this "desire to remove grass" and possible even "order or do it by oneself " would be seen as not akusala by my Person, Nyom Danilo . (Btw. hopefully not to unpleasing for Nyom, the late replay on his question).

The intention to harm and destry life is always akusala. The Idea of gras is not life strong wrong observation, the rejectiong of the perception of gras-devas, living in/on gras, is also wrong view. To even follow ones intent to destry life by word (signs) or body adds also the break of Sila of Asketics living on alms of the land and if the object faces death/destroying of it's, his live, a full transgression had been made.

Again:
- to harm plants is a break of a Vinaya rule
- to build something, having the intention to accept to destroy life, is a break of a Vinaya rule. (only is no harm is done by it, a monk is allowed to build himself what ever building)

Of cause it's not to be seen as fault if the intention to build comes from a non-Bhikkhu, or is build other where, otherwise by non-Bhikkhus.

There are times and occations when direct building by a Bhikkhu on a certain place is possible, like for example after a forest fire or a place cleared by others, on rocks, naked places... and things like if lay people desire to build or lead the way, where, how, when.. by themselves where a monks could particulary assist when question arise and say what is proper as "end-product" and encouragement to harmlessness.

Does this explain Nyom Danilo 's question and release doubt? Could my persons word be understood sufficiently? No need to shy to counterask or seek for release of doubt in regard of the ways of wise and those wishing to follow.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 02:38:49 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 03:20:48 AM »
Maybe to be more clear anyhow: "consented to clear" is not done by not giving an answer or order (to a certain place or how it is done).

"I want to give bamboo trees. Where should I plant them?" An answer "right here", pointing on a place where plants need to be distroyed and mark it, would would be very critical for a Bhikkhu. An answer: "this are is good" pointing on a larger area, is no problem. No "real" answer like: "where ever Nyom feels fine" not a little consents, agrement of destruction at all. Plants could be replanted to do not destroy or proper particular places chosen... similar with bildings.

Such as a comment by a Bhikkhu: "Oh, there are plants (gras)... (not possible to build for me), without the intent to move others to act for him for destruction, and a lay person, hearing that, thinks "what if I clear the are for the monk and cts on it (as another example), is also not even mental agree with destruction.

Yet, Vinaya, of cource is not something that protects of akusala kamma and when a Bhikkhu speaks in ways wish can not be seen as encouragement to destroy, such does not violate his precepts. So this "magic formulars" we had already talked about, the sublime Buddha gave, can be used of course, again, akusala".

To use the wrong words here in this regard, even if intention is kusala and no idea of approve of destruction behind, can break the formal Bhikkhu rules.

For example "I wish there would be no gras" in presents of lay people (incl. novices as well) while actually already have abound the idea of building ther because causing harm of plants, and people go on on that and clear the are, that would be a violation through not using the right words "magic formular" would be a kusala example that nevertheless violates the rules of behavior (speech) of the Bhikkhus.

Like to say "I wish this person would not exist..", for example. Can mean alot and general assumed as a "shout after someone, -what, to kill him while an other expression would not easy lead to such assuming.

So generally, if seeing a situatin where consenting of monks to destroy life could be possible asumed: such is not sure a break of his rules unless not heared his words (coursed others to destruct by taking on them) and not sure akusala even if heared "wrong words". Neither his perception of living being, nor his actual intention, nor his possible approves, disapproves, can be seen by others.

Again. Evenvery good monks happen to do wrong according the convention of the Vinaya and to still akusala actions by thoughts, speech... till reaching the state of Arahatshipp. And even an Arahat could violate the Vinaya-rules, not knowing a particalar convention of deeds by speech and body.

So easy for an uninstructed lay person, even not knowing all, to assume even an Arahat to consents, approves, the destruction of plante life.

Lay people know that Noble Ones do not destro or harm plant-life, even a seed. Lay people know possible that a particular formular lies in the convetion of by the Buddha allowed way of speech speaking on others then Dhamma.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2020, 10:24:59 AM »
Good to see that Bhante is doing well.  _/\_

I did grasp nearly all in the posts regarding the matter of vegetal life, Bhante. But the following point is the reason I rose this question and I still didn't understand.

this "desire to remove grass" and possible even "order or do it by oneself " would be seen as not akusala by my Person,

When the grass is uprooted, it doesn't dies? I don't understand why this is not akusala.

Online Johann

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2020, 11:27:12 AM »
Nyom Danilo . Harming and destruction of living beings: approve of it, joy with it (mental) encouraging to it, giving sign, order, speak to move others to (verbal); doing it bodily by oneself, all of that is akusala.

So maybe just bad spoken or misunderstood. A bad to understand sentence, cuting "cause to" away. This idea, such would be not akusala, is wrong. What ever intentional destruction of what is know, recogniced as living being, is wrong. The Buddha therefore, and his instructed disciples therefore abstain from harm and destruction of seeds, plants, what ever is perceiveable as living.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 11:35:28 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2020, 05:01:41 AM »
Then, is correct to assume that what was done in the "Giving shelter, shadow, by own effort" topic were dark kamma (uprooting the grass) along with bright kamma (build/giving shelter)?

Online Johann

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 06:34:06 PM »
That is something one can hardly see without knowing mind of others. As far as seen, no. Maybe some mixed, being taught by monks (as usual), plants to cut does not matter for no-Bhikkhus. In how far the merit maker might have been aware of animals in the soil, and in this case (4 month no rain), very, very less, is another. As for the young man, as well the young girl, Nyom can be sure that pure white kamma was long time present. But may Nyom ask them personally to be more sure.

As for Sila, to self-honest check, if later remorse arises, the are some factors helpful when right used. Intention/acceptance to kill, object much be (perceived) as alive, one puts an effort and acts (by word/sign or body), the being finds death on it. If a factor misses, there is no break. As for kamma it incl. mind where only intention or acceptance is enought for the kamma of killing.

So how many factors are sure for Nyom Danilo here?

As for the involvement of Bhante... my person did not observed, not a fan of risky liking to assist. Usually monks are taught, by certain commentaries, to be not so shy in this regard. Maybe Nyom Cheav Villa can ask Bhante Indannano personally, that there is Upasaka Danilo from Brazil, who thinks the act of merits (planting bamboo, and assist) was dark kamma, and possible the assistance of Bhante a break of precepts.

Again: So how many factors are sure for Nyom Danilo here?

But much importand here, and even since a longer such could be the case (maybe used to "over-critical" and perfection outward seeking), Nyom would make a lot of bad kamma (best black and white, if on "fighue out for a good) because he might focuses on finding faults and leaves out oppotunities, since some time still, to use share of merits (first) for rejoice on it (what can be perceived as such, at least verbal), to giving always the good parts first line. That would help him more, or to train speech to relativat issues, at least (so not to, maybe "hurt" unrightly). May Nyom investigate that deeply, and keep in mind that if discreditate improper a Noble fellow, that such block his own further walk on as well, as urge to such "good mind keeping).

Maybe he likes to take part here a little as well, some a little guided and documented at the Ashram Thmo Duk , since very practical on topic here. Maybe Atma can give a talk on it as well the next days.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:16:23 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: Dealing with vegetal life in line with the Dhamma
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2020, 06:40:14 AM »
With plants it's actually the same like with everything else: with uphold metta, right view. What ever isn't based on it, if good, just a "pointless" ritual, not open up deep to the source, root of suffering, Nyom Danilo .

One turns from usuall wrong view:

There is the case where a certain person is covetous. He covets the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears ill will, corrupt in the resolves of his heart: 'May these beings be killed or cut apart or crushed or destroyed, or may they not exist at all!' He has wrong view, is warped in the way he sees things: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made impure in three ways by mental action.


to right view, metta:

There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action.

Cunda Kammaraputta Sutta: To Cunda the Silversmith


With uphold right view, with metta for all incl. first for oneself, one isn't able to act harmful toward other life knowingly, does not act harmful.
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