Okasa Ven. Members of the Sangha, Ven. Grandfather
Varado , Ven.
Indaññāno , Ven.
Ariyadhammika Upasaka Danilo, devoted follower of the Gems from Brazil, asked in relation to Kanas previous account:
Bhante Johann,
The Vinaya, which prescribe the rules, protocols and customs to be followed by the Sangha, seems pretty extensive. I wonder how much of it one must know to be able to reconize e distinguish those who are 'thieves' and those who are valid members of the Sangha.
Thinking it's good to do so, that the Venerables may not be touched by possible "hot irons" for then, my person takes leave to address the question. May the Venerables nevertheless point out things which might be an obstacles for long term happiness, out of compassion.
Nyom
Danilo ,
Sadhu for investigation.
Also many others, Upasaka Ebo (
saddhamma ) shortly approached the issue. Maybe good generally, to keep in mind, that one always meets what is given. Sometimes it's because giving confused windmill-demons that one has a lot to struggle by oneself with them. Sometimes strong desire for knowledge, yet not really given, makes the knowledge a hindrance.
Generally, one not being part of the Buddhas Sangha yet, has not been given, is not asked by the Buddha, to know much of rules they have, but the opposite.
To display a perceiveable Savaka Sangha in the world is "only" the Sanghas own task at least. So no need to worry about the formal issues but only in regarding of ones perception of the Savaka Sangha heading beyond world. That is possible the most significant mark which makes it much more easier to trace of whom aspires, has objectives in the world, under the use of the Buddhas lables, or just objectives toward release.
In fact, to know to much about the holly life, better the customs, can easily turn aspirants away and this being the reason, the Buddha didn't really allow much informing, and there are even rules that say "not before having gone fort".
Now, many live in the time and perception of many "fakes" and this being the reason the Sangha obiviously decided in their last great meeting in the 1950 to make the heritage more accessable for making prove. Yet of course, the more knowledge doesn't give more release without seeing through the views the heartword is imbedded.
For one leaving home, inspired by the Noble Ones, there is not much special danger and one can be sure that ones old friend, ones merits, approach one half the way of ones search.
So it's totally useless, from my persons point of view, to try to match perfect once by oneself having not a little left home.
If feeling inspired, and especially if it goes against certain grains, if not tracing real fundamental strange things, go on, don't waste time. There are many small Sanghas and not all are for all, but depending on ones Upanissaya.
Here it would be often brought into cooperation with the different followers, disciples, of the single great Venerables, like those attended to Ven.Maha Kassapa, Sariputta, Moggalana, Upali...
It should be not thought that they are of different course.
And one should also remember, that the Buddha preferred merely small, near bound to each others, groups, thinking on the highest benevolence by dewlling of Sotas with Sotas... Arahats with Arahat on ideal level, or wise teacher with wise students, virtuous with virtuous...
In the west or modern World Ven. Maha Kassapa often counts as only ideal. Yet, naturally, that is the smallest group. It wouldn't work, leads to frust, if seeking for this quality in most known and largest groups.
More large ways, following Ven. Sariputta, Moggolana, which are the traditional, are often downgraded in the west. Just think on how much modern world talks on meditation, yet deep ensnared in wrong view, incapacity and aversion against basic merits.
If thinking, while within the train, that changing the class gives a better feeling, fits better to refined perception, there is no problem at all in doing what ever kind of "re-ordination" or "app-additing".
Yet there is also much nonsens going on, often even impure minded, when certain groups or teacher, call others to re-ordain. Even such isn't really necessary if solid perception of the target of refuge.
There are only four grave things which can not be repeared for ones Bhikkhu aspiration, once gained higher ordination within pure and doubtless perceived Sangha, Nissaya, Upajjhāya.
One should keep in mind that neither clear perception nor object related to it, are something lasting, could not change, for not-Arahats.
Generally useful teaching for understanding the matter and how to work on with it, is generously given by Ven. Grandfather Thanissaro in a short dhammic teaching:
The Power of Judgment May it be releasing and hindrances destructing.
Again, aside of seeking refuge and wishing to go forth from common ways under the Refuge, you are not asked to be informed and the rest starts with the "formal" request.
Even here certain groups today argue that the initial request has to follow a given fix pattern, but actually hasn't, yet "just" worry again that nothing is made wrong. Elders, everywhere, usually are very careful to look for the best possible for their children, yet not after gain by accumulation of children at the same time.
Kamma of beings is different, so it wouldn't work like booking an all included holiday from the professional marked, end even then and there booked, not for sure. That's how things are, but by trust in kamma and skillful, relay on what is given, nothing to fear at all in relation to liberation.
mudita